Is it possible to get to third void torrent now? And some other questions

[Tanaerius]

First of all I want to say IMO legion is the best expansion after wrath having a good time and some bad times as shadow priest, good time in raids, bad times in finding mythic + dungeons
With the recent nerf with dispersion, I find myself having a hard time to get into the third void torrent(surrender to madness) emerald nightmare. I am currently I lvl 863 crit 24%haste 33%mastery 31%, I don't really quite know what I am doing wrong. Please help
Also I'm always popping power infusion in the first voidform at around 15 stacks also using potion of deadly grace is this right? So I can push the first lingering insanity higher around 35~40,and in the execution phase 35% where I StM I will be using power infusion at around 80 stacks. But In the first few minutes of the fight I'm at bottom of the dps(220~250k dps) and because of this my raid leader thinks I am performing poorly but I don't think the RL understands that when we down the boss to 35% that's where we shadow priests outshines other dps classes, our guild (25men) is currently 4/7 heroic emerald nightmare, the four bosses we downed I can always get to top 5 damage done. But with the fifth (we're doing the spider boss, our guild can't get the boss down to 40 % so I can't use STM, and so the RL wants me to change to holy priest which I have less artifact trait 19 shadow is 25 and it's very frustrating because I know I F ing know that I can get to top 3 dps hell maybe even no.1 in dps,
So it's like I know I can benefit the team more as shadow priest, but being benched because my RL doesn't understand my class what should I do?
Sorry if my English is bad please give some advice and answers thank you all

[Jullyx]

A third void torrent is really hard in practice. You can probably get it off some of the time on a dummy, and most of the time if you get hero at the right moment.
I know some still disperse twice to gate the CD, which will be pretty punishing if you don't make it. I suggest just expecting two void torrents for now, which means using one at around 40 stacks and one right before you are about to die, after PI, to gate SW: D's. There might be some marginally better ways to approach it, but I found this works well.

Also, your raid leader is obviously clueless as to how shadow priests work. This is not really something you can blame him for in a casual guild. You just have to show him the evidence (logs etc). Now, I'm not in a guild, but in your situation, if I knew we were wiping at 40%, I'd just pop S2M super early to prove my point if he doesn't listen to reason.

[Narbert]

Also, your raid leader is obviously clueless as to how shadow priests work. This is not really something you can blame him for in a casual guild. You just have to show him the evidence (logs etc). Now, I'm not in a guild, but in your situation, if I knew we were wiping at 40%, I'd just pop S2M super early to prove my point if he doesn't listen to reason.

AMEN. If a couple people die and you see a wipe coming, pop STM and go crazy. Your RL sounds pretty obnoxious/stupid/clueless so when he sees your climbing the dps he will leave you alone, because in casual guilds Wipe DPS Matters

[Yvaelle]

Shadow DPS can go up like 5x for the S2M execute phase. You can be doing like 200k for most of the fight, and then leap to nearly a million DPS for the last 35%.

Link your RL here maybe so we can inform him that it's not just you?

[Deleted]

Hey man. Personally I've noticed that holding out on popping PI as long as you can until you can't deal with the drain anymore is the way to reach the 3rd voit. I'm reaching it quite consistently now with about 32% haste (26ish crit i think). The way I learnt when to use it(PI, and chaining disp after it runs out(depending on where you are in the rotatin when pi runs out)) was literally just wiping to dummies multiple times in a row trying to delay popping PI as long as possible. For me (I do have the leg shoulders tho) that was around 93-ish stacks.

[Woop Woop]

Some people are just moronic. There isn't too much you can do about it.
You could try to take him with you to normal or even LFR to show him how our spec works. When he sees that our dps easily increases by 100k+ he will leave you alone.
When I was progressing ursoc heroic with a pug, a lot of them complained that my dps was below 200k on our wipes, ended up at #2 or #3 when we landed the kill.

[Deleted]

Third void torrent is pretty easy to reach with proper play, you can make reaching it super easy by doing double disperse ( Void torrent as you enter VF, 1st disperse right after, 2nd one when needed), delay PI as long as possible and use SW: D properly and reaching 3rd void torrent shouldn't ever be an issue really.

Best advices you can get is : learn to min max SW: D usage, try to go into PI with 0 SW: D charges and have 2 ready once PI times out.

I wrote up a quick guide on how to STM for couple of friends so if it's of any help great https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Wg25Ij04Q/edit

[Woop Woop]

The moronic part is S2M design tbh, not people who can't expect to know every class nor the ludicrous state of spriest having 4-5X as much dps during the S2M execute than in the rest of the fight.

So if you were a guild leader and one of your raid members were performing poorly, in your eyes, you wouldn't do just a little bit of research to find out why?

[Clrg]

Third void torrent is pretty easy to reach with proper play, you can make reaching it super easy by doing double disperse ( Void torrent as you enter VF, 1st disperse right after, 2nd one when needed), delay PI as long as possible and use SW: D properly and reaching 3rd void torrent shouldn't ever be an issue really.

Best advices you can get is : learn to min max SW: D usage, try to go into PI with 0 SW: D charges and have 2 ready once PI times out.

I wrote up a quick guide on how to STM for couple of friends so if it's of any help great https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...Wg25Ij04Q/edit

Can you explain this part
>Use Power Infusion at 85-100(93-110 with legendary shoulders)

[Deleted]

Yeah you want to use power infusion as late as possible to max out the benefit from both insanity generation and increased damage on dots, so it's more of an when needed thing rather then oh I'm on 85 stacks, time to PI.
85-100 VF stacks(seconds) is when you'll most likely need it without lust.
You start VF with 6-7 stacks more with legendary shoulders, so anywhere from 93 stacks (seconds) and onwards is mostly fine.
It is possible to save up PI and use it on 125 stacks (after 3rd void torrent) but getting there without lust is really hard.

[Vampiregenesis]

What the hell? you are starting of with 250k dps and you are at the bottom? and you have killed only 4 bosses? what should i say about my guild where the first dps is around 190k and they think they can progress through hc? and they actually blame the healers for everything? they also have similar ir lvl to you but they think they cant pull more than 200k. Man this world is full of idiots , dont stay together with people who lack a brain.

[Yvaelle]

What the hell? you are starting of with 250k dps and you are at the bottom? and you have killed only 4 bosses? what should i say about my guild where the first dps is around 190k and they think they can progress through hc? and they actually blame the healers for everything? they also have similar ir lvl to you but they think they cant pull more than 200k. Man this world is full of idiots , dont stay together with people who lack a brain.

It may be the difference between Bloodlust vs. No Bloodlust on the pull remember

[Tanaerius]

After reading all the posts from the forums I have now successfully got to my first third void torrent thank you for your advice I've been using torrent as soon as I get into void form and then at 60ish stacks and then pop pi at 90 stacks and then disperse torrent thank you

[Deleted]

This thread has helped me also very much , thing is I still struggle to reach 90 Stacks without PI (20% crit, 36% Haste) ... I might be just bad , I do play with a 80ms though could that be it ....?

[dmfg]

I have almost exactly the same stats and average 250ms. It's definitely doable, I'm fairly consistent on a dummy but not in raids.

I just mash as hard as I can to get those spells queued, and accept that sometimes I am going to die embarrassingly at 80-85 stacks with PI unused (and pray we wipe because I'm selfish like that). I do also soil myself occasionally.

[Deleted]

I have almost exactly the same stats and average 250ms. It's definitely doable, I'm fairly consistent on a dummy but not in raids.

I just mash as hard as I can to get those spells queued, and accept that sometimes I am going to die embarrassingly at 80-85 stacks with PI unused (and pray we wipe because I'm selfish like that). I do also soil myself occasionally.

So on 130% haste (70 stacks) you go VB-->MB-->VB-->Filler (Where Filler is MF or SWD) and you do that blind ? What I try to do is do the former blind as good as I can do where MF is the filler except when I see red in my insanity bar ( I use the twintop WA) I use SWD to fill it up and pray that I will not need it again before I have no charges ..... But I do struggle , more with the raid mechanics etc ...

[Tanaerius]

A third void torrent is really hard in practice. You can probably get it off some of the time on a dummy, and most of the time if you get hero at the right moment.
I know some still disperse twice to gate the CD, which will be pretty punishing if you don't make it. I suggest just expecting two void torrents for now, which means using one at around 40 stacks and one right before you are about to die, after PI, to gate SW: D's. There might be some marginally better ways to approach it, but I found this works well.

Also, your raid leader is obviously clueless as to how shadow priests work. This is not really something you can blame him for in a casual guild. You just have to show him the evidence (logs etc). Now, I'm not in a guild, but in your situation, if I knew we were wiping at 40%, I'd just pop S2M super early to prove my point if he doesn't listen to reason.

yes after reading the replies I have now successfully executed my third torrent thank you, and ya my RL is clueless and maybe i should switch to another guild if he still doesnt listens to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Shadow DPS can go up like 5x for the S2M execute phase. You can be doing like 200k for most of the fight, and then leap to nearly a million DPS for the last 35%.

Link your RL here maybe so we can inform him that it's not just you?

Yes I understand now after getting my first third torrent on a boss fight I see how our near-million DPS is soo insane, sadly Im in Taiwan region so my RL probably cant understand these posts lol guess I have to switch guilds

- - - Updated - - -

Hey man. Personally I've noticed that holding out on popping PI as long as you can until you can't deal with the drain anymore is the way to reach the 3rd voit. I'm reaching it quite consistently now with about 32% haste (26ish crit i think). The way I learnt when to use it(PI, and chaining disp after it runs out(depending on where you are in the rotatin when pi runs out)) was literally just wiping to dummies multiple times in a row trying to delay popping PI as long as possible. For me (I do have the leg shoulders tho) that was around 93-ish stacks.

Yes thank you soo much this was very informative I now pop PI around 88~93 ish and get to third torrent quite often. thank you

- - - Updated - - -

[QUOTE=Kuriisu;42812298]Third void torrent is pretty easy to reach with proper play, you can make reaching it super easy by doing double disperse ( Void torrent as you enter VF, 1st disperse right after, 2nd one when needed), delay PI as long as possible and use SW: D properly and reaching 3rd void torrent shouldn't ever be an issue really.

Best advices you can get is : learn to min max SW: D usage, try to go into PI with 0 SW: D charges and have 2 ready once PI times out.

I wrote up a quick guide on how to STM for couple of friends so if it's of any help great

I have read your short guide and watched the clip and I must say it was very useful, also i wanted to ask about trinkets I have now
a 870 socket plague hive and a 855 naraxes tongue, should I swap naraxes out for a 865 horrorslime? Also I have checked world of wargraphs top shadow priests armory and it seems they are all using the self crafted necklace which instantly gains 30 insanity is it currently the BIS necklace for shadow priests? thank you sir

[Deleted]

Naraxes isn't all that great since you'll often find yourself standing very close to the boss, making it far better on sims then in actual gameplay. Horror slime ain't all that great for us either, http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/128709/trade-skill is very good alternative if naraxes/horroslime are all you've got.

Yeah the neck is very useful, for couple of reasons.
Biggest one being that the insanity provided scales with STM, so you get 75 insanity when you use it, making it extremely potent if used properly.

Neck is also crafted so you can nit-pick stats you'd like, and necks don't have intellect on them so dps gain by going to even much higher ilvl neck will be pretty marginal whilst on use effect might give you quite a bit longer STM resulting in a big dps gain.

[dmfg]

So on 130% haste (70 stacks) you go VB-->MB-->VB-->Filler (Where Filler is MF or SWD) and you do that blind ? What I try to do is do the former blind as good as I can do where MF is the filler except when I see red in my insanity bar ( I use the twintop WA) I use SWD to fill it up and pray that I will not need it again before I have no charges ..... But I do struggle , more with the raid mechanics etc ...

Yeah I do that blind, and I watch for yellow bar (I have never successfully reacted to red bar - lag causes VF to drop before the server registers insanity gain).

If I feel I might not even make it to 80 stacks even after using class neck, I cut my losses and PI at 7x, for about 105 stacks total. But if I make it to 80 I always hold off for 85 and go for third VTor.