Frost DPS 7.1 ALL you need to know!

[Piz813]

not shared yet. this is to consolidate the numerous threads asking the same thing.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.ph5x2y4fh8jg

TRINKET LIST IS AT BOTTOM

Karazhan Eye of Command is BiS

ALSO Advice on relic selection as well. Note Blast Radius is not there. That's because HB is critting for 700k+ for myself and others and fishing for a rime proc is not a 100%. I personally tested it and ditched a HB relic for Cold as Ice world quest one. Doing just fine.

Frost is neck and neck with Unholy now. PLAY THE SPEC YOU ENJOY THE MOST (and if you hate a pet)

Some real good Frost parses are on warcraftlogs.com. Select a boss, item level bracket, heroic/Mythic, etc to see for yourself.

No two sims will be the same. Titanforged, sockets, ilevels, Suramar dungeon set, etc change everything.

Practice practice PRACTICE. Do LFR. Then do it again. Then change a talent and do it again.

Obliteration is very good now. Not every one likes it though and GA is just fine- even on Nythendra. The only pure Single target boss out today

[Miseras]

Thanks! Interesting read. I have a question regarding Glacial Advance. You write in the guide..

Glacial Advance is still as useful as it was in Machinegun but due to the rune consumption gameplay style it simply cannot compete.

..but at the same time the top ranking Frost DK's are all using Glacial Advance.

Am I missing something here?

[Schizoide]

Pretty confusing that you decided to call a non-FSc build "MG".

Your RA/Obliteration MG priority uses Obliterate only on KM, but the only other single-rune ability in that priority is RW. Wouldn't that constantly overcap on runes? And if you didn't mean to Oblit only on KM, how does this differ from standard frost?

Frostscythe sims as a DPS loss on single-targets in 7.1, even with KM. Without KM, it's a DPS loss on less than 4 targets. Do you have evidence the sim is wrong there?

[volcodc]

I don't understand-- you say it's updated for 7.1, but it still talks about MG?

Yeah this guide is outdated. It also is suggesting getting the razorice trait before howling blast trait...That is so wrong.

[Piz813]

Thanks! Interesting read. I have a question regarding Glacial Advance. You write in the guide..



..but at the same time the top ranking Frost DK's are all using Glacial Advance.

Am I missing something here?

Nope you got it. Some like Obliteration and some dont. I dont but say when Nightmare Dragons are clumped or close by you can pop Obliteration and FS, Scythe, FS, Scythe etc. GA can crit for 500k and is useful in daily play so I like it more personally. Practice with Obliteration in a few pugs/LFR to see if you enjoy it and learn it.
Im guessing mathmatically Obliteration is better but you need to learn how and when to use it properly. GA just smashes everything in front of you. and hits them HARD if it crits. Fights like M Elere where you dont need scythe take GA. there are periods of adds but they die fast and then its back to Single Target 90% of the time.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah this guide is outdated. It also is suggesting getting the razorice trait before howling blast trait...That is so wrong.

this was written a few days ago. so stop

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty confusing that you decided to call a non-FSc build "MG".

Your RA/Obliteration MG priority uses Obliterate only on KM, but the only other single-rune ability in that priority is RW. Wouldn't that constantly overcap on runes? And if you didn't mean to Oblit only on KM, how does this differ from standard frost?

Frostscythe sims as a DPS loss on single-targets in 7.1, even with KM. Without KM, it's a DPS loss on less than 4 targets. Do you have evidence the sim is wrong there?

i didnt write it. just sharing here to clear up the dozens of same posts. All the Discord guys made this. Ask them

[Schizoide]

Ahh OK.

Regarding Obliteration, it does sim a smidgen higher than GA, but only on single-targets. GA should be the "default" choice, IMO.

[Deleted]

Yeah this guide is outdated. It also is suggesting getting the razorice trait before howling blast trait...That is so wrong.

You know that MG means high swing time due IcyTalon and getting FrozenPulse up?
There were always MG-Specs with Obliterate or FrScy (but now with 7.1. Obliterate MG-Specs are mostly considered better).

Quote from Trait-chapter:
Then you’ll pick up Bad to the Bone and finally Blast Radius. Blast Radius is a single target damage increase with the changes to Howling Blast but Bad to the Bone offers more consistent AoE damage. This is largely a preference pick depending on the content you wish to do. Mythic + it is suggested Bad to the Bone, raids is Blast Radius.

[Garwin7]

Am i the only FDK that doesnt run Avalanche? It just never seems to be that good of a talent. Id rather run Icecaps to lower Pillar and use pillar more. I understand why to use avalanche but icecaps just seems better.

[volcodc]

You know that MG means high swing time due IcyTalon and getting FrozenPulse up?
There were always MG-Specs with Obliterate or FrScy (but now with 7.1. Obliterate MG-Specs are mostly considered better).

Quote from Trait-chapter:
Then you’ll pick up Bad to the Bone and finally Blast Radius. Blast Radius is a single target damage increase with the changes to Howling Blast but Bad to the Bone offers more consistent AoE damage. This is largely a preference pick depending on the content you wish to do. Mythic + it is suggested Bad to the Bone, raids is Blast Radius.

Looking over all of the logs from post 7.1, this cannot be accurate. Razorice is ~2% of your damage in both ST and cleave encounters. Bad to the bone does not increase the way the buff interacts with the spec, only the razorice hits. Howling blast is generally your #3 damaging ability (or possibly #4 depending on FP uptime and HB usage) in a IcyTouch OB build. Howling blast also does way more damage in a cleave situation than razorice.

Bad to the bone also does not affect the frost vulnerability on the target, only the auto attacks. Feel free to math me, but I just can't see how it's even a close consideration.

[Piz813]

Am i the only FDK that doesnt run Avalanche? It just never seems to be that good of a talent. Id rather run Icecaps to lower Pillar and use pillar more. I understand why to use avalanche but icecaps just seems better.

Icecap is good in mythic + for the OB stun talent and on a fight where there is a priority target. Avalanche is just general DPS. I guess its personal preference

BUT
if i had the frost bracers, Icecap all day every where

[infinitemeridian]

Questions:

1) Do we ever use empower rune weapon? Seems counter-intuitive because of Frozen Pulse.

2) Does Rime take priority during obliteration?

3) What is the optimal opener?

[Piz813]

Questions:

1) Do we ever use empower rune weapon? Seems counter-intuitive because of Frozen Pulse.

2) Does Rime take priority during obliteration?

3) What is the optimal opener?

1- yes. I do for dry spells or lust. with the OB RA build, the orange ring isnt a bad thing to have IMO
2- no. dont use it till after Obliteration is over. in the Doc
3- In the doc. OB RA and a Scythe opener. then follow priority as usual

there was talk of a Rime cancel macro. I like 700k crits so I use Rime when I see it lit up

[Inject]

The most common build I'm seeing uses Icy Talons, Frozen Pulse, Icecap, Runic Attenuation and Glacial Advance. Seems like a very flexible build for EN. Not too heavy on the cleave and not too heavy on the ST.

[Piz813]

The most common build I'm seeing uses Icy Talons, Frozen Pulse, Icecap, Runic Attenuation and Glacial Advance. Seems like a very flexible build for EN. Not too heavy on the cleave and not too heavy on the ST.

it came out Wednesday morning we dont need scythe at all in EN. even in mythic! We all tried just Runic Attune and OB heavy rotation and did just fine. Neck and neck with UH guys the same ilevel.

Scythe MURDERS in Mythic +. for dungeons only take that, Icecap and GA

[Nemesquish]

Am i the only FDK that doesnt run Avalanche? It just never seems to be that good of a talent. Id rather run Icecaps to lower Pillar and use pillar more. I understand why to use avalanche but icecaps just seems better.

I've never ran Avalanche, Icecap is too good with any decent amount of Crit.

[Schizoide]

You know that MG means high swing time due IcyTalon and getting FrozenPulse up?

That was never how MG builds were defined before. The IT*6 was called MG because you hit a button over and over, for example. It's just a bit confusing how they're still calling it MG even without FSc. Not a big deal.

Re talents, Avalanche only sims 0.9% over Icecap. Pick whichever one you prefer, unless you have the bracers in which case obviously Icecap. Both Avalanche and Icecap directly scale with crit, although I haven't bothered to sim out the scalars as they're so close in currently attainable gear and secondary stat budgets don't increase in Legion.

Most important miss in the doc is using FSc with KM on 1 target. That's wrong.

[Piz813]

Most important miss in the doc is using FSc with KM on 1 target. That's wrong.

if you feel its wrong, contact the guide writers. Names and date it was modified is right up at the top.

if you spec'd Scythe for a fight and there are no adds to cleave, you wouldnt use it on a KM if frost fever is already there?

[Schizoide]

Yes, with the obliterate and HB buffs it's more damage to obliterate. With the FPulse changes, you can leave a single rune up with no penalty. That's why FPulse was changed, to incent people to use Obliterate and kill the FSc MG priority.

There is a crit threshold where 2*FSc without KM is more damage than 1*OB+0.45*HB without KM, but given that secondary stat budgets increase very slowly in Legion, we probably won't hit it this expansion.

[Piz813]

Yes, with the obliterate and HB buffs it's more damage to obliterate. With the FPulse changes, you can leave a single rune up with no penalty. That's why FPulse was changed, to incent people to use Obliterate and kill the FSc MG priority.

There is a crit threshold where 2*FSc without KM is more damage than 1*OB+0.45*HB without KM, but given that secondary stat budgets increase very slowly in Legion, we probably won't hit it this expansion.

Not saying you are wrong but don't discourage the masses asking about frost every ten minutes.
It's good. If you like it then play it. You won't be bottom barrel and if find one of those "your key our carry" groups, the will LOVE YOU as scythe is melt trash in a 5 man. Three chests every time

[improvedai]

Thanks for putting this together. I've been out of the DK scene for a bit and was like what what the heck is all this machine gun talk. Just what I needed to read today. =D