I like Outlaw!

[asapeazy]

The only thing i could see rerolling for would be SiW or TB during CDs. But guaranteed 2 roll buffs would fix a lot of the inconsistency we have. You can't argue that wouldn't fix the ridiculous damage spread we have. Spending 20-40 combo points on what could otherwise be Run Through is not good gameplay.

I wouldn't reroll if i had any 2 buffs. If i had broadsides and jolly roger during CDS, MAYBE. But even then probably not.

[Valnar]

The only thing i could see rerolling for would be SiW or TB during CDs. But guaranteed 2 roll buffs would fix a lot of the inconsistency we have. You can't argue that wouldn't fix the ridiculous damage spread we have. Spending 20-40 combo points on what could otherwise be Run Through is not good gameplay.

I wouldn't reroll if i had any 2 buffs. If i had broadsides and jolly roger during CDS, MAYBE. But even then probably not.

TB would probably be very powerful if you could guarantee it with another buff.

Fishing for TB in the case you always get 2 roll would be roughly the same chances as getting a 2 roll now.

The damage loss people see now isn't coming from keeping single buffs, its from rerolling. That spread wouldn't necessarily change, because it would still likely be optimal to reroll a fair amount of times.

You can't say for certain that you would always keep your rolls in your situation because you don't know if that would actually be optimal. The spread between different combos of 2 buffs could be massive.

[Lisa Frank Succubus]

I really hope you play an outlaw rogue with a name that's some kind of variation on Sinbad, OP.

I haven't done any serious content with my rogue, I really like the theme and idea of roll the bones I just dislike how it can cause such a big disparity in DPS.

[Sinbad101]

What decisions do you make, then? Do you have even one single example? No, you haven't, your abilities are still the same, no matter what buffs you roll.
The only thing that constantly fluctuates is your evaluation whether to reroll RtB or not.

I like outlaw, but i an see why some people do not. And i don't need to start a childish thread about it, feels good.

Sorry but you do more childish things. Every rare occasion I check this forum, YOU are always on every thread. When do you ever have to actually PLAY the GAME? or Eat right? or Bath? or get a job?

Hince the "childish" Title of the thread. There's some explanation.

[prwraith]

I'd be happy if they made it so you couldn't roll true bearing by itself ever.

[Sinbad101]

You ask us what we dislike about a spec but want to ignore most of the things that are wrong with it atm?
It's clumsy, it's unreliable in a raid environment and you can't rely on yourself because of that.
Even though you want everyone interested about number to reroll mage doesn't change the fact that outlaw doesn't have good numbers, and even if it did, you wouldn't get them when you need them.

The rotation is abomination, consisting of buff replacing for god knows how long at times just so you can have some interesting gameplay for a minute, rinse and repeat.

Class fantasy consists of shooting a pistol few times, unless pirates were big on rolling giant dices for no reason.

Only proper reason to play the spec is Thunderfury, which is nice.

THe "FAntasy" was to react. REact to your fate, RtB. BUt it ended up affecting damage more than Playstyle.
so the exact thing you hate is RtB and Rerolling? Ok good response but still just 1 spell.


I know people have an issue with RtB, they can't get over it, but god damn there are other issues with the spec. So list those to. B/C when it comes down to it, you can com[plain about RtB all you want but it's here to stay.

[Eazy]

If you like the spec then it's fine for you.

No need to say that it's "our fault" that we don't like it. Even Blizzard said that the spec isn't as much as they wanted to be.

Neither of these would necessarily change a lot with regards to how much you reroll.

They would just change which rolls you keep and reroll, you'd still likely be rerolling roughly the same amount of times on average.

Just make it roll 2 random buffs... with 40 sec CD!

[Sinbad101]

It's funny how your whole 'roll a mage thing' can simply be changed to 'respec Assassination'.

Nope.

Mage will always be in the top 7, Sin/Mut won't. If all you care about is topping the DPS charts.. which i pity thee, then go mage. B/C clearly you have no love for Roles in an RPG.

Assassination i like.. It's easy and boring.. but relaxing and methodical. but like i said, outlaw was supposed to be the dynamic spec. like a dark souls game, reaction. but it ended up a punishing spec.

Also there's the people whom hate daggers and love swords.

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simply because i want play a stealth class, not a poor warrior fury in leather....

I never got this comparison. They have stealth. Plus all melee are just warrior with different weapons unless it's a DoT spec. Seriously, The comparison is dumb, if you know what a "rogue" means, you know it's pretty broad and doesn't mean "stealthy", that's just wow.

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I really hope you play an outlaw rogue with a name that's some kind of variation on Sinbad, OP.

I haven't done any serious content with my rogue, I really like the theme and idea of roll the bones I just dislike how it can cause such a big disparity in DPS.

THAT. is the issue. They're still learning how to balance and tune it, it's new, that's why i said not to f-king mention it.


PLUS: honestly it's a bit pathetic no matter how important it is, to hate a spec based on 1 button. imo

[Edgary]

My only beef is that Saber Slash costs 55 freaking energy and its not even guaranteed to hit twice, yet Mut costs the same amount and will always hit twice, and yes, I feel like Mut hits harder...do I have math to back that up? No. Its just a feeling I have.

I think RtB is dank, I love outlaw, I love Sub, and I love Sin, all three specs are super dope and each have their own niche when it comes to what I'm doing. IE: I play Sub when pvping and WQ'ing, I also like to play as Outlaw when i'm WQ'ing or doing Dungeons, and I use Sin to raid...all in all, I think rogue is in a good spot, guess i've been drinking too much of the "kool-aid" after reading everyone else's comments lol

[Sinbad101]

If you like the spec then it's fine for you.

No need to say that it's "our fault" that we don't like it. Even Blizzard said that the spec isn't as much as they wanted to be.



Just make it roll 2 random buffs... with 40 sec CD!

I see you often on these forums.. or just all hardcore rogues look alike, but i like how instead of just saying "RtB" you suggested something.
Doesn't change the issue, "what else is wrong with the spec"?
Yeah i know people hate RtB but like i siad it's 1 ability that's here to stay, and will NEVER be predictable. The reason people only want 2 buffs always is because of how the numbers work out, but to change it would have a ripple affect, it's so hard to balance but a great "IDEA".




Now for my input:
This is how i would fix it.. you ready?

RtB now cost no energy --> Less punishing to re roll.
&
Buff all the buffs so that they're all good by themselves.

You see the problem is that blizz loves the ability. They love the randomness. The MAIN reason most rogues hate it isn't because it's about reaction (if so gtfo) but that you NEED 2 buffs to do good damage and SOME BUFFS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS.
Just an idea, the ability is really complex and takes multiple minds to address.





Now! Like I said.
Try to comment about stuff other than RtB like Talents, energy, artifact, defense, rotation, passives, and additions. Unless you have a legit suggestion for RtB change.Something in line with blizzard's idea for the spell.

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My only beef is that Saber Slash costs 55 freaking energy and its not even guaranteed to hit twice, yet Mut costs the same amount and will always hit twice, and yes, I feel like Mut hits harder...do I have math to back that up? No. Its just a feeling I have.

I think RtB is dank, I love outlaw, I love Sub, and I love Sin, all three specs are super dope and each have their own niche when it comes to what I'm doing. IE: I play Sub when pvping and WQ'ing, I also like to play as Outlaw when i'm WQ'ing or doing Dungeons, and I use Sin to raid...all in all, I think rogue is in a good spot, guess i've been drinking too much of the "kool-aid" after reading everyone else's comments lol

My biggest problems are with the lame Gold traits, the talents, and that F-king energy costs. very slow unless you have alacrity stacks.

I also wish Mastery was better as it has it's own dope animation when it procs. Plus that would improve our kinda lack luster Scaling.

[Deleted]

THAT. is the issue. They're still learning how to balance and tune it, it's new, that's why i said not to f-king mention it.


PLUS: honestly it's a bit pathetic no matter how important it is, to hate a spec based on 1 button. imo

Learning how to...? You think they're still tuning...? Oh bless you.

And there's nothing pathetic about disliking a spec for that "one button" that ruins it. That's like being butthurt if someone doesn't want to taste the cake you baked after you tell them you had the really cool idea of replacing the buttercream with shit. I mean, it's just one ingredient...

[ymirsson]

Sorry but you do more childish things. Every rare occasion I check this forum, YOU are always on every thread. When do you ever have to actually PLAY the GAME? or Eat right? or Bath? or get a job?

Hince the "childish" Title of the thread. There's some explanation.

I just had 2 weeks of vacation, and where were you the last weeks, i didnt see you at all. Does your correctional facility have no internet access?

[Sinbad101]

Learning how to...? You think they're still tuning...? Oh bless you.

And there's nothing pathetic about disliking a spec for that "one button" that ruins it. That's like being butthurt if someone doesn't want to taste the cake you baked after you tell them you had the really cool idea of replacing the buttercream with shit. I mean, it's just one ingredient...

Yes they are. It's a complex program. A literal in game simulation of rolling 6, 6 sided, dice. So no sh-t they're still balancing it, bless you.


I get that you hate slot machines but the only reason most people hate RtB is because how much it affects your damage. It honestly only has 2 RNG elements: Saber slash (Just like revealing strike had) and RtB which is a touchy topic due to the community of WoW in general, being stuck on the idea of a boring non-dynamic tab targeting system.

It's still just 1 aspect of the spec. no matter what you say and how important it seems to be or is. It's 1 part of a bunch of other pieces. Actually no matter what buffs you get it's still a self BUFF mechanic and honestly no the foundation to the spec's design. Take it away and you just got the same spec but more boring. If you don't like the idea of Rtb gtfo unless you have a better idea for the Pirate theme they wanted, but if you just have an issue with the current RtB then think about way to help it grow.
But yes, it IS pathetic to disregard a spec in whole like most rogues do because of
1. Damage, which will be tuned
2. 1 single ability that is new and will be tuned.

Now any other complaints besides RtB?

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I just had 2 weeks of vacation, and where were you the last weeks, i didnt see you at all. Does your correctional facility have no internet access?

You see? That's childish. To assume that about me. I honestly could find evidence about you on almost every thread here. The point is to not see me, dumba-s. So i can be living and at times playing the game.

So do you have anything constructive to add to the thread or are you just gonna be the thread lurker I've seen you to be. Funny enough tho, half the reason of this thread was to attract the hate of people like you. Hence the title.


Please just do some jumping jacks.

[Eazy]

I see you often on these forums.. or just all hardcore rogues look alike

I'm a rogue and I like these threads.

but i like how instead of just saying "RtB" you suggested something.

It's better than saying nothing. ;-)

This is how i would fix it.. you ready?

*expecting something awesome*

RtB now cost no energy --> Less punishing to re roll.
&
Buff all the buffs so that they're all good by themselves.

Well, not going to lie - that's okay. But I already said something like that before, I said:
3 buff, 2 buffs connected(grand melee + true bearing etc.)

You see the problem is that blizz loves the ability. They love the randomness. The MAIN reason most rogues hate it isn't because it's about reaction (if so gtfo) but that you NEED 2 buffs to do good damage and SOME BUFFS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS.
Just an idea, the ability is really complex and takes multiple minds to address.

That's the problem, the ability is too much RNG, it's just unpredictable, which causes irritation and less likely excitement(one 6 buff roll on trash per 50 rolls isn't rewarding).

[ymirsson]

You see? That's childish. To assume that about me. I honestly could find evidence about you on almost every thread here. The point is to not see me, dumba-s. So i can be living and at times playing the game.

So do you have anything constructive to add to the thread or are you just gonna be the thread lurker I've seen you to be. Funny enough tho, half the reason of this thread was to attract the hate of people like you. Hence the title.


Please just do some jumping jacks.

So let me get this straight: you assuming things about other people is good.
Other people assuming things about you is bad.
Donald, is that you?

[Kpmk]

One of the main reasons i love Outlaw is because of roll the bones, actually. It makes outlaw rogue one of the more unique and fun to play rotations that I have played in years, and i have a lot of alts. I find it to be a very fun mechanic. Thunderfury helps too. Hunting down the hidden artifacts on all my alts has been one of the funner things I've done this expansion and Thunderfury is one of the best looking, so not using them would be a true shame. But the best part is topping dps charts with a spec that misinformed people consider inferior, always makes me smile

[Twinlock]

I would just like to be able to have a chance of rolling 4 or 5 buffs as well. Not only 1-2-3-6. Think that might solve the problem a bit.

[Sinbad101]

I'm a rogue and I like these threads.



It's better than saying nothing. ;-)



*expecting something awesome*


Well, not going to lie - that's okay. But I already said something like that before, I said:
3 buff, 2 buffs connected(grand melee + true bearing etc.)


That's the problem, the ability is too much RNG, it's just unpredictable, which causes irritation and less likely excitement(one 6 buff roll on trash per 50 rolls isn't rewarding).

No, the issue is people wanting it to be predictable. that's not going to happen. THat's why i said buff all the buffs to be even or useful on their own. And take away one of our valuable recourses from the cast. it would just smooth things out and nothing would be considered "bad luck" but that's just my take.
Like i said, It will take many minds to solve, but i'm glad to hear input. but it WILL NEVER be predictable in any way. it's a pirate.

[Blayke]

I get that you hate slot machines but the only reason most people hate RtB is because how much it affects your damage.

Well, since that's pretty much what we're there to do, one might argue that that's a legitimate complaint.

I loved Outlaw at first, and I'm still pretty cool with it now, although I have begun pumping ap into my sub artifact. I can easily see myself working the old paradigm "Sub on ST/Outlaw on MT". Honestly don't want to go Sin because I don't care for the playstyle, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. But we'll see as time goes by.

And sorry, but RTB and dps cannot be off the table since they are not only at the heart of the issue but are bound inextricably together. I still believe the easiest way to fix this would be to revert the nerf to rtb by simply giving us back the +40% buff to crit/attack speed/whatever. This not only improves the damage but also takes the sting out of a one buff roll in many cases. Otherwise, they could revert the relic nerfs. Granted, this wouldn't fix rtb, but let's be honest: if you're doing respectable and consistent dps, you're going to be a lot more tolerant of the vagaries of rtb.

Some other observations, since you asked for something other than rtb comments:

Still love the spec for any 5 man content. It's fast paced and given all the trash in these things it's easy to satisfy my inner dps whore.

And finally, I'm not a huge fan of the whole pirate thing. I see myself more as a highwayman than a pirate. Takes a few mental gymnastics, but it works for me. Cheers!

[Sinbad101]

One of the main reasons i love Outlaw is because of roll the bones, actually. It makes outlaw rogue one of the more unique and fun to play rotations that I have played in years, and i have a lot of alts. I find it to be a very fun mechanic. Thunderfury helps too. Hunting down the hidden artifacts on all my alts has been one of the funner things I've done this expansion and Thunderfury is one of the best looking, so not using them would be a true shame. But the best part is topping dps charts with a spec that misinformed people consider inferior, always makes me smile

I like you.

But unfortunately to most rogues, outlaw feels punishing to play. Even i, whom love the idea of REACTING to my fate to gain from it, feel punished often, mainly due to the current numbers for getting 1 buff and also due to the inequality between buffs. Yes you can get good results fro skilled play but honestly atm luck has to much to do with your dps.






Anyway. Anything other than RtB???? Plz, trying to get a list.. so far it's short.

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I would just like to be able to have a chance of rolling 4 or 5 buffs as well. Not only 1-2-3-6. Think that might solve the problem a bit.

It would make things a bit better but the program won't allow for it.
It's based on rolling 6, 6 sided dice. so if 3 dice land on grand melee and 3 land on Jolly Rodger --> You get both. If you do the math you'll see that it's then IMPOSIBLE to get 4 or 5 buffs ever with the current model and any model based on REAL dice.

I've tried to redesign it into a 4 buff max (1,2, or 4 buffs) system but Pyramid shaped dice wouldn't make much since. (4 sided dice)