(Optional) Difficulty Settings in WoW?

[Kynario]

I really like the idea, talked about it in the past, but perhaps better than a player-based difficulty setting (that essentially puts you at a disadvantage compared to everyone else) they could look into hard-mode realms?

For instance, instead of a setting you can turn on or off, or even a character creation setting (hard-mode character) that you can't change after creating the character, maybe they could simply introduce hard-mode realms? Basicly the same idea, but instead of any character in any realm being able to enter hard-mode independently of the rest of the world, a few realms where everyone is playing the same higher difficulty world content.

That way everyone would be on the same footing and be allowed to do multiplayer content.

I mean, if it's not realm based, how does it work when you join a party with someone who isn't in hard mode? How does it work when you queue for a dungeon?

Maybe the idea is a bit too close to the idea of pristine realms, but personally it's something I'd like to see, at least for the leveling, defenitely.

Again, I guess this is just me, but I love the idea of Hard-Mode Realms or Pristine Realms. I think it is a great idea, but I assume not a lot of players are asking for this. Well... Besides Legacy Realms...

[Kolvarg]

Again, I guess this is just me, but I love the idea of Hard-Mode Realms or Pristine Realms. I think it is a great idea, but I assume not a lot of players are asking for this. Well... Besides Legacy Realms...

Same, and it's defenitely a way to cater to a different audience - the players who like grinds, the idea of a realm community, and long-term character progression.

Yes, it would work for only a minority, arguably significantly smaller than the potential legacy realms have, but I'd really like them.

I think they were very harshly received as an idea simply because they were basicly proposed as an alternative to legacy realms, which is not what a lot of the legacy people actually want. And afaik they only proposed the removal of acessibility features and heirlooms, not really slower rates / harder enemies.

The main problem with such a realm/mode, I believe, is that it's very hard for them to keep old content properly challenging (not too easy, not too hard) while continuously changing classes and their tuning. But then again, it would be mostly ok if there's a few mobs that get too strong, for instance, as you can simply group with people to overcome that, or skip that until you get stronger - better than having almost the whole entirety of leveling content be too easy.

I suppose some sort of scaling technology (similar to 100-110) content *could* work, too, but it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying imo. Still better than what we currently have, though.

[Natylyaz]

Same, and it's defenitely a way to cater to a different audience - the players who like grinds, the idea of a realm community, and long-term character progression.

Yes, it would work for only a minority, arguably significantly smaller than the potential legacy realms have, but I'd really like them.

I think they were very harshly received as an idea simply because they were basicly proposed as an alternative to legacy realms, which is not what a lot of the legacy people actually want. And afaik they only proposed the removal of acessibility features and heirlooms, not really slower rates / harder enemies.

The main problem with such a realm/mode, I believe, is that it's very hard for them to keep old content properly challenging (not too easy, not too hard) while continuously changing classes and their tuning. But then again, it would be mostly ok if there's a few mobs that get too strong, for instance, as you can simply group with people to overcome that, or skip that until you get stronger - better than having almost the whole entirety of leveling content be too easy.

I suppose some sort of scaling technology (similar to 100-110) content *could* work, too, but it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying imo. Still better than what we currently have, though.

I do not personally want grind in leveling, I just want it to be relevant, with actual combats instead of one-shotting.
My priestess dates from TBC, leveling with a wand was tedious, but this is not what this is about. Having 100-110 difficulty and relevance for 1-60 is not adding more grind. This is what I would want for example (perhaps with the option for it to be more difficult, but not more grindy).

[Accendor]

That said, the levelling experience in broken isles works really well.

It actually doesn't work really well. There was no use to implement the leveling system at all, because all mobs scaled with you. So why level at all? During 1-110 it would make sense, because you get some talents and spells every few levels (but then again, something around 40 levels would totally do) but after level 100 nothing changes for your class (except for demon hunters). Yes, you get your artifact and that totally alters your playstyle, but that has nothing to do with leveling.

So while the zones are fun in legion, the leveling system did not work at all.

[Natylyaz]

It actually doesn't work really well. There was no use to implement the leveling system at all, because all mobs scaled with you. So why level at all? During 1-110 it would make sense, because you get some talents and spells every few levels (but then again, something around 40 levels would totally do) but after level 100 nothing changes for your class (except for demon hunters). Yes, you get your artifact and that totally alters your playstyle, but that has nothing to do with leveling.

So while the zones are fun in legion, the leveling system did not work at all.

I agree that leveling is somewhat irrelevant for 100-110, but that is down to how spells and talents work (which is another problem), not how the level-gaining is done and your power-level towards the zones.
If you take Demon Hunters which you mention, then it works better.

[ComputerNerd]

You obviously have a certain amount of experience, and that is often problem with these arguments.
Usually with these comes a flat out difficulty increase suggestion which is only suiting those players with that experience.
At least you are suggesting an optional increase.

The problem then is how do you increase the difficulty.
Extra health or damage on enemies is I think an easier option, and given the Broken Isles scaling it now has a precedent.
Even borrowing straight from that and increasing their level to achieve those results is a possibility.
I don't think adding in extra or different abilities is feasible, though there could do with a reworking of the abilities to fit the new player toolkit progression.

"If you want harder raids just go into LFR with everyone naked, don't need higher difficulties."
"If you want to run for longer, just use the same course and then run in the same place when you reach the end."

Yes, people "can" do that. It's just not nearly as satisfying (for many people) to do it, as opposed to playing an actually proper challenging, well-paced game.

It's not just about the game being harder, but being harder in an interesting way. One that still provides character progression and growth, and that promotes the player makes his character as powerful as he can, instead of the player purposefully making his character artificially weak for the sake of strict harder combat.

RPGs are not just about combat. Removing or reversing the RPG aspects of the game for the sake of harder combat is not a solution.

RPG is about real character decisions and development.
Something which despite being bundled with the MMORPG genre, wow is lacking.
The only choices which had any bearing, and arguably little to no impact on ROLE development were faction and race as they had some limiting factor on what you had access to.
Beyond that there is none.

Gear isn't something you make meaningful choices about.
You simply aim for the best numerically.

The game works best when players are not separated and isolated from each other.
Yet that is exactly what real character development involves, decisions that differentiate you, that alter the game experience and content access significantly.
That is why single-player games do that best.
Because other players don't matter, so your decisions can be as isolating as you want them to be.

I would say MMORPG is a contradiction, one is contrary to the other.

[Lillyth]

I remember leveling my shadow priest prior to legion. I just put Shadow Word: Pain on all the Mobs and continued to run. I never actually stopped to fight until level ~30. One dot was enough to kill them.

Thats just... stupid. The basic difficulty and length of the leveling process should be much, much higher. If you want to have it shorter and easier, thats what heirlooms are for.

They already said that the leveling experienced suffered massively due to new expansions and number reworks coming out. This may be addressed after Legion has come to a close. Source? Blizzcon Warcraft Q&A

[MoanaLisa]

its more the fact that if they didnt scale back on what it took to level it would be a good 100+ hours to even hit 80. which is not something anyone wants to do

It's a tough thing although I agree with you 100%. Leveling to end game is fast, incredibly easy and doesn't give you much information about how the game is really played. To make it much more difficult would be to extend the leveling process so that it would be slow, difficult and perhaps still wouldn't give you enough information about how the game works at end game.

Hardly anyone is really interested in that. I suppose if it's important to finish the zone, people will finish the zone anyway to see the story. If they have already seen the story a dozen times I expect that something like what the OP wants would end up rarely being used.

Good lord, look at all of the threads we get now about grinding. Turning leveling into something that takes a lot longer, is more difficult all the way, and forced you to see all of the story of a zone would be about the last thing that players would have any interest in. Might perk up boost sales though.

[Natylyaz]

It's a tough thing although I agree with you 100%. Leveling to end game is fast, incredibly easy and doesn't give you much information about how the game is really played. To make it much more difficult would be to extend the leveling process so that it would be slow, difficult and perhaps still wouldn't give you enough information about how the game works at end game.

Hardly anyone is really interested in that. I suppose if it's important to finish the zone, people will finish the zone anyway to see the story. If they have already seen the story a dozen times I expect that something like what the OP wants would end up rarely being used.

Good lord, look at all of the threads we get now about grinding. Turning leveling into something that takes a lot longer, is more difficult all the way, and forced you to see all of the story of a zone would be about the last thing that players would have any interest in. Might perk up boost sales though.

Keeping a whole zone relevant and having combats relevant does not necessarily means a longer journey to max level.

(Numbers are wrong, it's to illustrate)
Today, no scaling, easy fights: You spend 3 hours per region, and you gain 5 levels per region => takes 20 regions to reach level 100, in 60 hours
Tomorrow, scaling mobs, hard fights: You spend 6 hours per region, you gain 10 levels per region => takes 10 regions to reach level 100, in 60 hours

This has nothing to do with grinding.

Also, you missed the point about it being an option, noone is forced into it.

[Mad_Murdock]

. Turning leveling into something that takes a lot longer, is more difficult all the way, and forced you to see all of the story of a zone would be about the last thing that players would have any interest in. Might perk up boost sales though.

And that would be the next hate filled complaint against Blizzard, they took a boring task and made it even worse, just to suck money out of players via boosts. Which is why I fully support an "optional" path, but would be fairly opposed to making it the new standard for all.

[kary]

Gotta love these threads where people yell their bad ideas and ignore people when they say "hey, your idea is bad"

[Natylyaz]

Gotta love these threads where people yell their bad ideas and ignore people when they say "hey, your idea is bad"

You bring nothing useful or pleasant to this thread.
Leveling is very easy and not enjoyable at the moment in the opinion of several people.
Providing an option could make it more enjoyable for these people, without changing it for every one else.
How is this is bad idea, and how are contradictors ignored? This is called a discussion, which has been going on for 3 pages.
I really fail to see your point here.

[shonist]

because now there are more enojoyable content to "consume time" than leveling. Now the deal is consume time, in playing the game. like dungeons/raids.

and by no means there should be "less difficulty switch" if you play on hard/mythic, easy/lfr cant harm you being there. more options are always best. its up to you what you choose. or maybe choose them all... what you want.

[victorvndoom]

wish there was something like the monitoring system that existed in RIFTS that you could alter your character level (not scaling) to the zone you are in and kill mobs at your level. So you would downscale yourself if you would be facing a harder zone and get mobs at a lower pace with the same powers you got when started the downscaling. It works with RIFTS why not here

[Marston]

I would love an optional difficulty slider, heck, increase drops and what not but give enemies a buff/yourself a debuff that affects Health and damage.

The thing is, what when other people join you? Do you loose said difficulty? Do they get it? Does it depend on the party leader? What if someone simply helps you kill a mob because you struggle with your Very Hard mode and they can two shot it with their full heirlooms on Normal mode?

I mean, they know that the low level content is broken in terms of difficulty and they fixed a little bit in late WoD, but it is not enough. But you also have to think about that we are people that played the game for years. What about those that never played an MMO before? They WILL struggle, they don't know what roations are, which stats are good etc.

As said, I am all for an optional difficulty slider, maybe like the old Monster Power in Diablo 3. There are just certain questions that need to be answered before even an optional difficulty can be added.

[Natylyaz]

And that would be the next hate filled complaint against Blizzard, they took a boring task and made it even worse, just to suck money out of players via boosts. Which is why I fully support an "optional" path, but would be fairly opposed to making it the new standard for all.

Leveling has been an important part of this game for a long time.
If it's a boring task, it means they have failed at it, and should try to fix it instead of making it even less relevant.
Otherwise I agree they should not just make it take twice as long by default, as it would be seen as a way to sell boosts.

[DechCJC]

Personally i'd like to just see a different type of realm where it's tuned properly, nothing else would change with end-game but there'd be a certain softcore 'ironman' feel to the leveling process, i'd actually really enjoy that.

I hate the idea of having a difficulty option on the realm though; If it was ever implemented i'd like it to be realm wide, either we all have it enforced or nobody does; I just wouldn't bother turning it up otherwise, how would it work in pug dungeons and stuff? How does it work if u just group with someone with heirlooms? It'd just be better if it was something that the entire realm did because they wanted it, there could even be free transfers off the realm if you were a new player and decided it really wasnt for you.

Or idk, something. I like leveling, it just bores me too much nowadays, would actually get me into the game a bit again.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It is sad that the biggest wall to climb for me getting a new toon up to 110 isn't time investment or challenging content but rather fighting to stay awake as I flight though an endless sea of creatures that from the birth of my character never had a chance to kill me. I thought it was because of looms, and to a degree I was right so I stripped them off and played a new toon without them. Really this didn't change. Mobs still rolled over without much challenge as I picked up gear as I leveled. It was just a slower process because I didn't have XP boost. At least until I hit outlands. A few of those quests were mildly challenging in greens and a mix of blues. But as soon as I hit WotLK and into and past Cata it was just a mow down again. Mostly because the rewards were so much more balanced and mixed. Usually had a few of level blues, decent trinkets, rings, and so forth just from questing it just melted stuff down.

[Deleted]

Id say this is fine now. First, all the old player already have a max level character, all the new players and returning players get a free boost.

To be fair, I don't think they even want anyone to play that old content cause it looks so ugly and outdated and revamping the whole world would take too much developer time. Id say a better solution would be to just make new characters start at 90-100 (the new 1). Remove all quests from old zones and just add peaceful NPCs etc. maybe some PvP areas here and there and an odd aggressive mob.

[kary]

You bring nothing useful or pleasant to this thread.
Leveling is very easy and not enjoyable at the moment in the opinion of several people.
Providing an option could make it more enjoyable for these people, without changing it for every one else.
How is this is bad idea, and how are contradictors ignored? This is called a discussion, which has been going on for 3 pages.
I really fail to see your point here.

It's called an echo chamber.
Anyway, take off your looms and level, if it's not challenging. Or do an ironman. There are your difficulty settings. Just like every other thing in WoW, gear makes things easier/harder.

But you can continue the chorus though.