Results are in - literally every class 100k dps higher on single target than hunters.

[vashe9]

Just killed cenarius mythic... omg, I'm still @420k dps~ but all the others are 480-500k+ even with less ilvl... It was not my best raid but BM hunter is clearly behind everyone

[darahion]

Our guild got the fastest Odyn Mythic kill in our ToV Mythic clear, this was the DPS: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Granted it was my first raid boss with new MM, DPS could be improved by 20-30k probably. Yet we are still at the bottom if I do improve slightly.

If we are to be hurt a lot in DPS by movement and target switching now in 7.1.5, then we should at least bring insane single-target otherwise. But we don't even do that, trash single-target, bad target switching, bad AoE, bad Cleave.

It's obvious trick shot is not the talent for that fight. So many hunters chose trick shot for God knows why then cry about their damage. Sidewinders is still the best for spread cleave. It's that simple.

[FelPlague]

MM can't do that.

How many move well casting/attacking spells does mm have? I knew they had like 1 or 2 but every spell?

[Tehterokkar]

It's obvious trick shot is not the talent for that fight. So many hunters chose trick shot for God knows why then cry about their damage. Sidewinders is still the best for spread cleave. It's that simple.

I wouldn't use SW on that. You can at most hit 3 targets(Odyn + 2 adds) with SW when add waves come. Plus P3 DPS is more important, and SW is like -20% ST DPS instead of Trick Shot.

[Magnagarde]

This is so bad, I'm at a loss of words to describe it.

Tested relevant builds on relevant encounters. You end up sitting and pooling your focus with arcane shot and then praying that a proc for marked shot comes up, otherwise you just stand there and lose out on a lot of DPS as Windburst/MoC has been spent up. Trueshot ends up making you cringe over the MS procs you waste because you either end up doing AS>MS all the time or you keep tapping the arcane shot to pool focus, land one marked shot and then go for aimed shot as much as you can within the vulnerable window; you either waste marked shot procs or you waste aimed shots within vulnerable windows(it was unimaginably important - especially in AoE fights - to keep both going; SW > MS > AS > AS, making perfect use of every single proc, while also landing the relevant number of AS).

Appart from the shit mechanics/result tradeoff(far less rewarding for being more "engaging"), getting the best ability rotation through had me see mid table at best.

[D3thray]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10/ <----Take a look at that one a MM hunter is #1 for all stars in mythic EN. 4 Hunters in the top 10.

You realize that's compared to other beast mastery hunters only right

[Eapoe]

Here's the truth. Hunters are bad, they're not as bad as the OP is trying to claim. BM and MM are the lowest single target in game, MM has great cleave and AoE potential. Its no where near the top, but its there and its something. There will always be a class at the bottom, there will always be a class at the top. There will always be people complaining that they're at the bottom. MM isn't fun, that's a new viable complaint, but spouting random garbage like "We're 150k dps lower than other classes" isn't going to get problems solved. Here's some statistics from last night just to prove my point:

Mythic Guarm: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...on=2&boss=1962
Mythic Helya: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/12#boss=2008

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10/ <----Take a look at that one a MM hunter is #1 for all stars in mythic EN. 4 Hunters in the top 10.


So I'm sorry that there's just more bad hunters around now, but the facts are right in front of you. Sorry that you can be gods doing everything anymore, now you're decent at AoE and bad at ST. With arguably the best mobility in the game for a ranged class.

Did you stop scrolling down or just look at people performance? Fact is, the damage is still very much behind the dps rankings of all other classes. You even state yourself "decent AoE bad ST," and go on about mobility. Mobility, such a flimsy excuse to justify numbers as well, getting tired of it. If that's used to justify a class/spec doing bad, then why aren't all melee roughly 500k above SPriests as they have the potential for the biggest downtime? Why aren't all immobile classes doing as well as Spriests in all factors of a fight? Please, stop being stupid when you try to write someone's concerns off.

[Spodumene]

Blamed the victim, no I was saying at least let Blizzard get real numbers because test realm numbers are a very small sample size of usually upper end players and then make changes from there. It will be the same thing that happened at EN launch. They got real world numbers from Heroic and Normal, looked at them and adjusted damage from there. At this point you are not even giving blizzard a chance, there is also a Dev Q and A coming that you may get answers from but at this point it has been 24 hours and less for EU since patch. As for your suggestion of increase damage, that is like telling a poor guy get more money, it does not help the poor guy get more money and increase DPS does not explain where the deficiencies are and is not a useful addition to the conversation that hunters are behind in DPS currently. Now if you want to sit down with the poor guy(Blizzard) and teach him that he can make more money by using his skill set in another way(hunters saying that changing resource generation or increasing damage of blank ability, reducing cooldown, etc and present your feedback in a concise, numerically based manner) the poor guy may be able to make more money. But no your answer is exactly what I pointed to will not help you, I need more DPS......boohoo look at me, I am talking

Blizzard has received feedback NONSTOP from the start of the last PTR cycle and this is what we got. The only kind of walking back you should expect from them is a flat "7% dmg increase across the board for hunters" in which case the shitty rotation, procs, and ramp up synergy is still there.

[Ilir]

That's what you get when you keep asking for the same things over and over again "we want to cast while moving pls".

[Mavick]

Here I got excited seeing "Hotfixes Jan 11" on the blue tracker, I clicked, and my disappointment was renewed:

Fixed a bug where sometimes stomp would not damage the target.......


GEE THANK YOU BLIZZARD!

[Sastank]

lol yes because a ranged class that can attack well moving like melee should be top dps

I didn't know windburst and aimed shot without leg/lnl proc (which is only used on cleave/aoe now) could be used while moving. Interesting.

Mages do more and can cast while moving with ice Floes and have a lot of instant casts. Theory on why that is?

[Polybius]

OMFG.

Ignore the fact that hunters always been there. Hunters been in 99% of every single world top 100 kills both in EN and ToT. They are doing the job(and doing very well).

But nope. Casuals once again, looking on the numbers and got not clue about thier strength/weakness. Just misinformed number obsessed person.

Go roll a SP mate.

Noooo. Don't encourage them to join the Shadow club.

N'Zoth does not approve.

[Renhiv]

How many move well casting/attacking spells does mm have? I knew they had like 1 or 2 but every spell?

Are you stuck in WoD or something?

[Deleted]

I wouldn't use SW on that. You can at most hit 3 targets(Odyn + 2 adds) with SW when add waves come. Plus P3 DPS is more important, and SW is like -20% ST DPS instead of Trick Shot.

this. its not viable to take sidewinders in current mythic odyn. you get like 2 or maybe 3 runebearers. also the hyrja cleave is not viable anymore since yesterday. sidewinders just sucks dick on this fight. just tunnel on hymdall/odyn and never switch targets

[Deavane]

I didn't know windburst and aimed shot without leg/lnl proc (which is only used on cleave/aoe now) could be used while moving. Interesting.

Mages do more and can cast while moving with ice Floes and have a lot of instant casts. Theory on why that is?

All specs except frost lost ice floes. Not the best example.

[Chaelexi]

Blizzard has received feedback NONSTOP from the start of the last PTR cycle and this is what we got. The only kind of walking back you should expect from them is a flat "7% dmg increase across the board for hunters" in which case the shitty rotation, procs, and ramp up synergy is still there.

Blizzard has received feedback NONSTOP from the start of the last PTR cycle and this is what we got. The only kind of walking back you should expect from them is a flat "7% dmg increase across the board for hunters" in which case the shitty rotation, procs, and ramp up synergy is still there.

Hey look it only took 4 posts to get you to make one semi productive post... But most of the feedback is like everything you have posted, complete fluff. M
We need more dps, our rotation is crappy, clunky, etc. We have to rely on procs(guess what most classes have procs), why do we have ramp up (both druids ramp up, locks ramp up many classes do it is part of some class mechanics)... You are a ranged physical dps in 2 specs, many physical dps have downtime in rotations, it is OK if you have a free gcd here or there. If you want no open gods play a caster.

[Sastank]

All specs except frost lost ice floes. Not the best example.

So they still have it available in a more viable/more dps spec? Okay. Seems good to me ?

[Schattenlied]

lol yes because a ranged class that can attack well moving like melee should be top dps

MM hunters cant attack on the move any more than most casters can, aimed shot requires footplanting to cast.

[Orangetai420]

You must be one of those guys who said during the PTR that everything would be fine.

Love those guys, they show up every patch cycle, every expac - thinking that somehow THIS will be the PTR where intelligent balance choices are made. Then, after nothing changes, they crawl back into their hole.

[Zantos]

How many move well casting/attacking spells does mm have? I knew they had like 1 or 2 but every spell?

We have zero good instant casts. Our bulk and main dps move has to be used while standing still, unless it procs, which is rare.