How do u guys feel about our ES rotation

[preciousx]

ES sim highest for single target for me, so I tested it a bit, it's a 30kish dps increase (for my case). But around 23% haste I have now, about 25% of the ES fall out of the judgment window, maybe I did something wrong? Also, at my haste level, I find this rotation a bit clunky?

[Ihas]

Ive always run the 30% haste being thats what Sims and my personal experiments resulted in. With the ES It is works amazingly well it is also a 30k DPS inc to myself as well.

[dnicks17]

I think it's a 23k ST increase for me.

The rotation feels a little clunkier, but not too bad.

[Snegovik]

in PvP it feels amazing, until it gets dispelled and you just cry on the inside...as you watch your dps drop down. Blizzard really needs give Rets anit-dispel ability similar to UA

[dnicks17]

It kind of bothers me that an ability that can hit for almost 4M has an animation that feels so unrewarding.

[Dalamian]

So far my experience has been mostly negative. Im at 875 iLvl and about 20% haste, and while ES sims higher for me, I found it very difficult to use it reliably, I missed a few casts which it didnt help the problem either, but Final Verdict just felt better to use in game.

Im going to keep trying ES and it could just be that my haste is too low right now. On the sims it was higher, but in practice it wasn't

[Deleted]

And why hasn't the fucking cloak dropped yet so I don't have to choose?

I disagree with that. I do have the cloak and yet i sim higher with ES. So maybe we should stop saying "FV > ES if u have the cloak" because it seems to be wrong !

[Ravingmad]

Im at 20% haste buffed and ES works of for me (got only the Leg ring). If ES doesnt want to crit, Im doing roughtly the same (or slightly lower) damage as with the +20%TV talent, if it does, this is where the joy starts, as it crit for 3.3M with my current gear. Add switching is painful as said above. It takes a little bit of time to figure out how/when to use ES during the rotation. I highly suggest to delay ES if the judgement buff isnt there. Im burning talent change books to change talent a lot more since our AoE talent are now viable. It just mainly used for trash but its nice to see we have other stuff than DS and Wake of Ashes for AoE. It feels clunky at first, but once u get used to it, its fine and our best single target option.

[Meiffert]

Practically speaking you do one of three things: Judge then ES

This is pretty much the only way to mess it up. Judgment debuff will expire right before ES.

[Dalamian]

Some musings

ES is nice when you can cast it when you reach 4-5 Holy Power and Judgment is not up (since you will likely get Judgment up soon after, in time for the hit)
ES is a pain on priority adds (they will have to last for 4 globals and still you would have to plan ahead a lot)

The question is, should you delay ES to sync it with Judgment (and at how many ES lost to delays does it become a dps loss)? And why hasn't the fucking cloak dropped yet so I don't have to choose?

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Maybe you need some help tracking when it is OK to use it?

That probably would help, it wasn't so much tracking whether or not it was on cooldown it was more me trying to prioritize having it go off when judgement is up. I wonder if it's just better to use it on cooldown and not worry whether or not judgement is on the target?

[Anardel]

I just put a button glow WA on my ES to tell me if the target has more than 7s of Judgment left or if the Judgment cooldown has less than 5s left and I wait for it to glow before using it. Practically speaking you do one of three things: Judge then ES, ES then Judge, ES then use one ability, then Judge.

Can you share that WA string? :P

[Meiffert]

Did you forget that the ES tick scales with haste?

I did.
You were right, casting ES just after Judgment is fine.

[xxcloud417xx]

Sitting at 20% Haste right now and having no issues with it.

It's particularly rewarding when our Warrior msgs me during Mythic Odyn last night saying "wtf that hit for 5mil!?"

[pay928]

Judgment debuff lasts 8 seconds. Execution Sentence lands after 7 seconds. With no haste, yes, the debuff would expire 0.5 seconds before ES landed. Who has 0 haste? You need 6.025% haste to get ES into the Judgment cooldown (1,5 GCD+7 ES /8=1.0625). Did you forget that the ES tick scales with haste? Or am I making some mistake?

Judgment lands at 0 seconds. ES woudl be cast at 1.0625 seconds. It would hit at 8.0625 seconds. Even if you get GCD down to 1S (don't know if still possible), you would miss ES by microseconds due to latency/reaction most likely. I believe this is how you would miss it.

[pay928]

Actually at that haste level=
0s Cast Judgment
1.41s (1.5/1.0625, due to GCD reduction through haste) Cast ES
8s (1.41+7/1.0625, due to ES duration being shortened through haste) ES lands and Judgment debuff fades.

Obviously it is exceedingly tight and not counting for latency and human reaction. But at normal haste levels (20%)
0s Cast Judgment
1.25s Cast ES
7.1s ES lands
8s Judgment debuff fades.
So at 20% haste you have 0.9s to account for input lag and human reaction which should be enough.

Ahh, you said it landed 7s after and I didn't realize haste sped up fast it falls. Seems odd that it would but I've never tried it.

[Monzsterr]

Is it actually important to cast ES within judgment? I thought the goal was simply for judgment to be up when ES lands.
I have a time bar showing judgment on my current target, I just make a WA to sit beside it showing the remaining time on ES before it lands, I've reviewed my log and of the 12 casts i got off on H GuarM (3 min fight, 17% haste) 11 of them landed during judgement, I missed one during his run around phase but it was still worth it as I would have just sat on the HP until he was close again otherwise.

So ES certainly sims out higher than FV, maybe 5% higher for me. What concerns me is how realistic actually playing it to it's max is during a crazy chaotic boss fight it may just be better to go with the FV simple rotation, or maybe it will just take a little practice until it requires almost to thought to maximise it.

Overall i'm happy with this, it give me something new to work on and keeps the rotation from becoming stale. I'm very happy that dungeon and AOE spec is changed, happy to see there are options for single target. I say options because while ES is probably a gain if you do it correctly, much like seraphim was last expac, for the average player it may be a loss due to the skill, timing, awareness, and precision needed to make it worth while. It may be best left to patchwerk fights and not used on very intense mechanic fights.

[Deleted]

At least till ES becomes really worthy (5% is laughable , 10% would be something for single target fights.) it is really hard to imagine more than 3-4 boss fights atm where it actually worths getting into all the trouble and use it. I mean a difference the likes of es/sera/ring aligning made for us last expansion.
1. Does old war flask work with ES or should we using the stats one ?
2. I bet an addon where u could enter your haste value and could calculate when u shouldn't actually cast es (presenting it with a screen message) cause when landing judge debuff would not be up would not be that difficult to design. waiting for binary experts to make one.

[Deleted]

Interesting, by how large a margin? Mind you ES certainly should do significantly more than FV, it is quite more complex to use after all than a passive.

Well i sim 498891 with ES, 489878, so i gain something like 10k dps using ES. I'm 883 ilvl with 28,78% crit, 21,75% haste, 4,59% versa and 26,10% mastery.

[Ihas]

I feel like Im unclear here on how the dmg operates because of the way the conversation is going.

I cast ES then immediately after I cast judgement so there is no possible way it lands without a judgement there. Still getting used to it but with this mind set I dont think I miss out on too many opportunities to spend my Holy power while Es is on CD and waiting for it to sync back up in that manner.

[Bonkura]

I'm glad I have cloak so I don't have play with ES. Way too clunky.