[Balance] Slip's Boomkin Theorycrafting (7.2.5+)

[Slippykins]

Yeah this is why I made a thread on the PTR forums.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754357350#1

Check it out.

[Deleted]

No need for ED to do single dps? Has my 8 months of mastering this item been for naught? Well at least I should get OI and IFE before ToS comes out...

[Slippykins]

No need for ED to do single dps? Has my 8 months of mastering this item been for naught? Well at least I should get OI and IFE before ToS comes out...

I know right? Hopefully 2pc + 4pc is addressed, otherwise we may have trouble keeping up with our BiS ST legendary benched.

[thedeisel]

Wow, awesome work again, Slippy. Thanks so much for the effort you put in all expansion on this stuff.

It seems to me that they've got the tuning of legendaries and set pieces relative to one another just right based on what you say here:

ED with 4pc is barely ahead of IFE and OI with 4pc/2pc builds.

That seems just about perfect. Now the people who like ED because of the playstyle can play it and those who don't can avoid it without being too punished. Seems perfect amount of power to purchase with a legendary. Optional, small power increase but substantial play style change up for those who really like it.

All they have to do now is bump up the overall moonkin damage levels to middle class and we'll have tremendous freedom to play builds we like.

[Polarthief]

ED with 4pc is barely ahead of IFE and OI with 4pc/2pc builds.

I'm actually okay with this, considering how much I loathe ED. Plus, I usually run SOTF (purely because that SF cost reduction is mandatory...) so that makes the 2P even better. *shrug*

That said though, it probably means we'll be waaaaaay behind, won't we?

[Slippykins]

I'm actually okay with this, considering how much I loathe ED. Plus, I usually run SOTF (purely because that SF cost reduction is mandatory...) so that makes the 2P even better. *shrug*

That said though, it probably means we'll be waaaaaay behind, won't we?

It means we neee to be balanced with not having T19 2pc for AoE and not having ED with 2pc for ST.

[thedeisel]

It means we neee to be balanced with not having T19 2pc for AoE and not having ED with 2pc for ST.

I'm not quite sure what the difficulty is here. T19 2pc provides almost no value for AoE because it only applies to solar/lunar empowered nukes which are very low in AoE situations. If there's virtually no difference between ED + 4T20 and 2T19 + 4T20 then they can just pick either of those to balacne around.

So, really, 2 T19 is irrelevant for balancing either single target or aoe. It has no impact on aoe dps. It's equivalent with ED so just balance around ED.

People who don't like ED or don't have ED can just supplement to close some of the gap with 2 T19.

[Slippykins]

I'm not quite sure what the difficulty is here. T19 2pc provides almost no value for AoE because it only applies to solar/lunar empowered nukes which are very low in AoE situations. If there's virtually no difference between ED + 4T20 and 2T19 + 4T20 then they can just pick either of those to balacne around.

So, really, 2 T19 is irrelevant for balancing either single target or aoe. It has no impact on aoe dps. It's equivalent with ED so just balance around ED.

People who don't like ED or don't have ED can just supplement to close some of the gap with 2 T19.

You're correct, the balancing may not be an issue in the end. My issue is mostly pertaining to ED being a lot of effort and punishment for very minimal gain. I think with each individual's gearing strategy ED may see some good use, but it does stand that ED will see a large decline in use from NH to ToS.

I just don't like the feeling that ED has great synergies with T20, yet it isn't a ST favourite due to some technicality with 6 piece tier.

- - - Updated - - -

As an interesting question, someone asked in Dreamgrove what would happen if the T20 2pc was multiplicative instead of additive? I had Xan put the 2pc in as additive as this is a more reasonable assumption, but it's possible from the wording that it's actually multiplicative.

I extended on this idea and considered a world where 6pc isn't possible. The results are as you would expect: ED is worth a bit more when 2pc is multiplicative, relatively speaking, and can be worth up to 8% ST DPS if you couldn't equip T19 2pc.



Just food for thought in Tomb. It's likely some players will still use ED due to gearing challenges. Always advisable to sim your alternatives.

[thedeisel]

Couple questions:
1. Does anyone have a Simcraft APL that will use starfall Single Target without stacking, only Starsurge to avoid capping AP, and only Lunar Strike to avoid capping LE charges?
2. Can anyone confirm for me that Falling Star is multiplicative on empowerments but Empowerment is additive?

In other words, to figure the empowerment bonuses,

Stellar Empowerment is

(Base Empowerment + Baseline Mastery + Mastery from Gear) * Falling Star

So, ignoring relics, and supposing I have 40% mastery from gear, Stellar Empowerment damage on each DoT tick would be:

(.2 + .18 + .4) * 1.4 = 1.092
That is, Stellar Empowerments increase dot damage by 109.2%

The Empowerments to Starsurge, by contrast are calculated as follows:

Base Empowerment + Baseline Mastery + Mastery from Gear + Empowerment Trait

So, again, ignoring relics and assuming we've maxed out Empowerment, and having 40% mastery on gear, we get:

.2 + .18 + .4 + .13 = .91.
That is, Solar and Lunar empowerments increase nuke damage by 91%.

[Dragontoth]

Slippy, in your big post i didnt see anything regarding the talents used for each legendary. Did you consider using SD for the OI/IFE/2p/4p simulation instead of NB?

[Deleted]

Couple questions:
1. Does anyone have a Simcraft APL that will use starfall Single Target without stacking, only Starsurge to avoid capping AP, and only Lunar Strike to avoid capping LE charges?
2. Can anyone confirm for me that Falling Star is multiplicative on empowerments but Empowerment is additive?

1. I don't have an APL for it, but to avoid overlapping starfalls use if=!debuff.stellar_empowerment.up
2. Correct.

[Zan15]

No need for ED to do single dps? Has my 8 months of mastering this item been for naught? Well at least I should get OI and IFE before ToS comes out...

i really hope so this helm is aids and needs to go away. it seems some people would like to see it buffed to keep this horrific play style that is effected by even the most minimal lag spikes and variances you can't even plan or see half the time. that is not skill, that is dependence on lag and luck.

[Dragontoth]

i really hope so this helm is aids and needs to go away. it seems some people would like to see it buffed to keep this horrific play style that is effected by even the most minimal lag spikes and variances you can't even plan or see half the time. that is not skill, that is dependence on lag and luck.

ED was more represent of a small chance for balance to be good ST. Now when we have to compete with other specs having bis legendaries and 2p/4p set boni, we might fall even more behind if Blizzard doesn't change anything. And untill now they showed how little they care about Balance performance.

[Slippykins]

Slippy, in your big post i didnt see anything regarding the talents used for each legendary. Did you consider using SD for the OI/IFE/2p/4p simulation instead of NB?

I didn't use SD, but I can definitely give it a shot when I get the time!

[Kluian05]

I feel like T20 + ED gear set should throw in the Glove/Boots set from CoS/Arcway to see how much further it pulls away from T19/T20 combo. Once ToS is out it should be feasible to get them around ~920 farming high keys.

[Slippykins]

I feel like T20 + ED gear set should throw in the Glove/Boots set from CoS/Arcway to see how much further it pulls away from T19/T20 combo. Once ToS is out it should be feasible to get them around ~920 farming high keys.

Yeah possibly, but it's important to remember the Jacin's Ruse set scales poorly when new tiers come out, as it's a flat mastery buff. I could sim it through and see what happens.

[wewe]

Hmm didn't Blizzard in 7.1.5 nerf legendaries so they are not a >10% increase in dmg, because they don't want a single item to be that powerful ?
With current sims ED is ~12% with T20 4 set which means its way to good, at least based on what they said in the past. If they stick to their guns then we might see an ED nerf in the future.

[Slippykins]

Hmm didn't Blizzard in 7.1.5 nerf legendaries so they are not a >10% increase in dmg, because they don't want a single item to be that powerful ?
With current sims ED is ~12% with T20 4 set which means its way to good, at least based on what they said in the past. If they stick to their guns then we might see an ED nerf in the future.

They wanted legendaries to not be 10% above other legendaries, and it looks like ED is only 8% above OI for ST in the absolute best of circumstances.

12% DPS for pure ST isn't that much considering it used to be 20%+ prior to being nerfed.

[Deleted]

ED, IFE and OI just scales better. Not only do they all double dip with haste, but they also benefit more from the new traits we got in 7.2 (ED/IFE has SS as a bigger portion of their dmg than base SS effectively got a 6% dmg buff from CI compared to other spells, and OI has starfall and falling star getting buffed) and OI gets a substaintial ST buff from the haste change to starfall. On top of that the new 2p is a further buff to ED/IFE, while the 4p is a buff to all 3.

[Kluian05]

Yeah possibly, but it's important to remember the Jacin's Ruse set scales poorly when new tiers come out, as it's a flat mastery buff. I could sim it through and see what happens.

I don't think its as severe as you imply, since you barely gain secondary stats on ilvl gain for non-jewelry as is. It all goes into main stat / stam.