What Trinkets Are you Craving?

[lobocito]

Hey all. This'll go for all 3 specs, but going into Nighthold- what trinkets do we think are going to be necessary, besides the Convergence? For Outlaw, AMR is showing even a raidfinder Nightblooming Frond to be BIS all around, with Convergence second and Arcanogolem 3rd. What will ya'll be aiming for?

[shaunika123]

the AMR sims for nightblooming seem way over the top for me

but we'll see

i want the guldan trinket to at least try how good it is combined with vendetta

[Zoopercat]

@shaunika123 Hey - I mentioned this in another post you were in, but wanted to drop by for @lobocito's sake as well. We verify all trinkets and legendaries to log data (once they are available in logs). So keep an eye out for any updates after nighthold launched.

Here's a RL example from EN: Twisting Winds. When Legion launched, we had 100% of the tornadoes hitting the boss. SimC has 30%. I went over several hundred logs in WCL across multiple bosses about 1 week after the raid opened, and found that for big, stationary bosses, about 90% of tornadoes hit on average. On smaller bosses or ones with a lot of movement, I found it to be around 60-80%. So we settled on an average of 80% (which you can see at the very bottom of the wiki, chance (percent) = 0.8). I sent the data over to the simC folks who decided on something a bit lower, I think 60% (favoring a conservative approach).

[Won7on]

For Assassination:

CoF to undo the boots nerf. Without it, Vendetta is simming at a 52sec CD even with 3 MA relics now. With CoF, that's a 45 sec CD with only 2 MA relics.

For the 2nd slot, Nightblooming Frond is simming the highest by far. A Mast stick seems to be the next best option. Naturally, I bonus rolled Eye of Guarm TWICE... with Haste.

[lobocito]

Thanks again for dropping by Zooper. At first I too thought the nightblooming frond numbers looked wild but the latest SIMC numbers are pretty close too so it looks like it may end up being one of our very best items- possibly even stronger than convergence!! Kind of disappointed with how the arcanogolem trinket sims- I'm hoping in practice it will be an excellent cleave choice.

[shaunika123]

Thanks again for dropping by Zooper. At first I too thought the nightblooming frond numbers looked wild but the latest SIMC numbers are pretty close too so it looks like it may end up being one of our very best items- possibly even stronger than convergence!! Kind of disappointed with how the arcanogolem trinket sims- I'm hoping in practice it will be an excellent cleave choice.

i'd be surprised if it really ended up boosting DPS by like 30-40k

if that were the case slice and dice outlaw would literally topple everything in the entire instance

[DakonBlackblade]

For Assassination:

CoF to undo the boots nerf. Without it, Vendetta is simming at a 52sec CD even with 3 MA relics now. With CoF, that's a 45 sec CD with only 2 MA relics.

For the 2nd slot, Nightblooming Frond is simming the highest by far. A Mast stick seems to be the next best option. Naturally, I bonus rolled Eye of Guarm TWICE... with Haste.

I keep teling ppl this, nobody sees to listen. I tested the Frond on the PTR and it was atrociously bad, of course the trinket might have changed but it was kinda as bad as the Apendages were before they buffed it, it would only proc 1 every 80 or os seconds and when it did you had a 15 seconds window to hit the boss 20+ times for it to reach any kind of decent damage, most of the times Id deal 400k damage when it proced wich is horrible considering how rare itd proc. It was the normal version of the trinket tough (the legendary flaskatour only seemed to sell normal grade things). The Arcanogolem Digit was surprisingly strong but I can't realy measure how strong it was when comparing with every other avaliable trinket, it was much stronger than the Frond for sure (giving almost 2x the damage the Frond would give during the same timespam of dummy smashing - 10 min or so sessions), Convergence of Fate is hard to test, it felt somewhat underwhelming with the procs being too rare and tbh retri palys are suposed to have priority on those anyway. From my tests the Entwined Elemental Foci, wich is a trinket ppl seen to forget exists, was the best (I didn't test the Draught of Souls), it had around 50% uptime and the bufs lasting 15 secs made it a much stronger version of the Memento of Angerboda, it yielded almost 10k more dps than the Frond did.

[shaunika123]

I keep teling ppl that, nobody sees to listen. I tested the Frond on the PTR and it was atrociously bad, of course the trinket might have changed but it was kinda as bad as the Apendages were before they buffed it, it would only proc 1 every 80 or os seconds and when it did you had a 15 seconds window to hit the boss 20+ times for it to reach any kind of decent damage, most of the times Id deal 400k damage when it proced wich is horrible considering how rare itd proc. It was the normal version of the trinket tough (the legendary flaskatour only seemed to sell normal grade things). The Arcanogolem Digit was surprisingly strong but I can't realy measure how strong it was when comparing with every other avaliable trinket, it was much stronger than the Frond for sure (giving almost 2x the damage the Frond would give during the same timespam of dummy smashing - 10 min or so sessions), Convergence of Fate is hard to test, it felt somewhat underwhelming with the procs being too rare and tbh retri palys are suposed to have priority on those anyway. From my tests the Entwined Elemental Foci, wich is a trinket ppl seen to forget exists, was the best (I didn't test the Draught of Souls), it had around 50% uptime and the bufs lasting 15 secs made it a much stronger version of the Memento of Angerboda, it yielded almost 10k more dps than the Frond did.

foci now lasts 20 seconds
it's basically a better version of memento in almost every way (except for the fact that it doesnt trigger on friendly death's)

my gut's telling it'll be best, but ofc we'll see.

the guldan trinket also seems insane for assa tbh
you can sync it with vendetta fairly well (every 2nd vendetta that is)
and it does like 3 million dmg

and you come out of it with full energy

[elfporn]

i'd be surprised if it really ended up boosting DPS by like 30-40k

if that were the case slice and dice outlaw would literally topple everything in the entire instance

heh, alacrity, and SB would be impacted as well as snd, and it would boost the attackspeed/leech buff from rtb. Might be some alternate talent options with it...though i'm skeptical.

- - - Updated - - -

I keep teling ppl that, nobody sees to listen. I tested the Frond on the PTR and it was atrociously bad, of course the trinket might have changed but it was kinda as bad as the Apendages were before they buffed it, it would only proc 1 every 80 or os seconds and when it did you had a 15 seconds window to hit the boss 20+ times for it to reach any kind of decent damage, most of the times Id deal 400k damage when it proced wich is horrible considering how rare itd proc. It was the normal version of the trinket tough (the legendary flaskatour only seemed to sell normal grade things). The Arcanogolem Digit was surprisingly strong but I can't realy measure how strong it was when comparing with every other avaliable trinket, it was much stronger than the Frond for sure (giving almost 2x the damage the Frond would give during the same timespam of dummy smashing - 10 min or so sessions), Convergence of Fate is hard to test, it felt somewhat underwhelming with the procs being too rare and tbh retri palys are suposed to have priority on those anyway. From my tests the Entwined Elemental Foci, wich is a trinket ppl seen to forget exists, was the best (I didn't test the Draught of Souls), it had around 50% uptime and the bufs lasting 15 secs made it a much stronger version of the Memento of Angerboda, it yielded almost 10k more dps than the Frond did.

i've been told sub's PPM for convergence of fate is 9, and for assassination it's 3...different ppm's per spec makes sense, but i wasn't able to test.

[DakonBlackblade]

foci now lasts 20 seconds

my gut's telling it'll be best, but ofc we'll see.

the guldan trinket also seems insane for assa tbh
you can sync it with vendetta fairly well (every 2nd vendetta that is)
and it does like 3 million dmg

and you come out of it with full energy

Ye but the Guldan trinket has no agi, so things can be tricky. Does that trinket always come with haste or is it a random secondary, it shows as haste on AMR, it'd suck if it has such an useless secondary on it. And whats the cooldown on the on use ? 2 minutes ?

i've been told sub's PPM for convergence of fate is 9, and for assassination it's 3...different ppm's per spec makes sense, but i wasn't able to test.

Just for context I tested these trinkets 2 or so months ago, there were plenty of other builds after my tests. the Frond was already siming like the second coming of the messiah tough, and I was very underwhelmed when it got outperformed by the Digit. Could be that there was some bug in the build I tested things, we will see tomorrow.

[Deleted]

Ye but the Guldna trinket has no agi, so things can be tricky. Does that trinket always come with haste or is it a random secondary, it shows as haste on AMR, it'd suck if it has such an useless secondary on it. And whats the cooldown on the on use ? 2 minutes ?

shows as haste + 80 sec cd in the dungeon journal