Why pvp feels so bad this expansion

[FelPlague]

Take this then (even if its just 2s):

again i had no argument with the content of the video, or the content the person was talking about

i simply pointed out "your making an example, using a 360p video?" when there is many others that are 1080 from the same year

[shoegazing]

again i had no argument with the content of the video, or the content the person was talking about

i simply pointed out "your making an example, using a 360p video?" when there is many others that are 1080 from the same year

the point I was making does not depend on the quality of the video but rather on the quality of the gameplay. stop being such a nitwit.

here's more evidence that old WoW PvP was superior to Legion in every way:

[Dizzeeyooo]

here's more evidence that old WoW PvP was superior to Legion in every way

could link pretty much any Hydra video as an example also, for instance:

[Crruor]

More skillfull doesnt mean superior. Its was harder, not better.

[shoegazing]

More skillfull doesnt mean superior. Its was harder, not better.

this argument would carry some weight if not for the fact that Blizzard are working their asses off trying to promote WoW as a viable esport

also just because something is very skillful at the top end of play does not mean it can't be accessible at the lower end. old WoW was incredibly challenging as a competitive game, that doesn't mean that noobs weren't also able to have fun.

i have a lot of fun playing cs:go even though it's hard and i totally suck at it

[Pipboi]

Maybe it is at an all-time low because most pvp players really don't like pvp, for the sake of pvp. Maybe people need guaranteed rewards and the ability to smash people on the back of their gear. Judging from the complaints I see on Legion and PvP, that appears to be the case...

People I know - lifelong pvpers, across gaming platforms and within the mmo genre - are enjoying pvp in this game much more than they did in previous xpacs. They have done a really good job at trimming a lot of the "fat" that used to exist in this game and reducing the importance of gear. Nearly every class in every spec is viable in PvP now. That is a fairly awesome achievement for Blizzard.

If I want a game where all that matters is my skill then I'll play a game like Dota2 or Smite, where it's all about PVP and it's far more polished/balanced than WoW. I play WoW for the MMO aspect. I enjoyed WoW PVP for the same reason I enjoyed Destiny PVP, because I can play to improve my skills, to get better gear, and to eventually pwn people who haven't put in as much time as me so that I can feel it was all worth the time investment.

I think the PVP community left because they realized WoW PVP on it's own just wasn't fun unless there was a way to work towards superiority.

[shoegazing]

If I want a game where all that matters is my skill then I'll play a game like Dota2 or Smite, where it's all about PVP and it's far more polished/balanced than WoW. I play WoW for the MMO aspect. I enjoyed WoW PVP for the same reason I enjoyed Destiny PVP, because I can play to improve my skills, to get better gear, and to eventually pwn people who haven't put in as much time as me so that I can feel it was all worth the time investment.

I think the PVP community left because they realized WoW PVP on it's own just wasn't fun unless there was a way to work towards superiority.

lol players who are confident in their skills don't feel like they need a gear advantage

[Dizzeeyooo]

More skillfull doesnt mean superior. Its was harder, not better.

lol, golden quote

[RelaZ]

More skillfull doesnt mean superior. Its was harder, not better.

It was both harder and better.

[Pipboi]

lol players who are confident in their skills don't feel like they need a gear advantage

If that's what you got from what I said then you're a fool.

[Crruor]

this argument would carry some weight if not for the fact that Blizzard are working their asses off trying to promote WoW as a viable esport

also just because something is very skillful at the top end of play does not mean it can't be accessible at the lower end. old WoW was incredibly challenging as a competitive game, that doesn't mean that noobs weren't also able to have fun.

i have a lot of fun playing cs:go even though it's hard and i totally suck at it

Im just saying that a harder and/or more skillfull game is not better by default. I dont like woltk pvp, many others dont like it either (the fact that it was as big a thing as it was back then was more due to the total lack of alternatives, rather then anything else, and the amount of people playing wow), it was more skilfull but way less fun. For me they hit the sweet spot in cata/mop.

"The game took more skill back then" isnt a good argument for the state of pvp. Good doesnt have to mean hard.

[Dizzeeyooo]

"The game took more skill back then" isnt a good argument for the state of pvp. Good doesnt have to mean hard.

good = good players have the tools to differentiate themselves from shit players, classes can be played in different ways with different balances of utility vs damage - for instance wotlk frost mage, some did more damage then others but less cc, some were amazing at cross cc but did less damage then others, trade-offs and choices existed

there are no trade-offs or choices in legion arena when skada/damages is seen as a super useful tool for judging your performance after a game ends

[shoegazing]

Im just saying that a harder and/or more skillfull game is not better by default. I dont like woltk pvp, many others dont like it either (the fact that it was as big a thing as it was back then was more due to the total lack of alternatives, rather then anything else, and the amount of people playing wow), it was more skilfull but way less fun. For me they hit the sweet spot in cata/mop.

"The game took more skill back then" isnt a good argument for the state of pvp. Good doesnt have to mean hard.

Which season of WotLK are you even referring to and which seasons of Cata and MoP? TBH it's not at all fair to compare the early seasons of an xpac to late seasons. I absolutely hated the first two seasons of WotLK for instance. But the later two seasons are widely considered to be the best in history. Most aficionados would rate the late seasons of MoP 2nd and then Cata is the most popular choice for 3rd place with BC not far behind, and Legion+WoD in a very, very far 5th and 6th.

These are the most widely held opinions on the most active PvP focused sites like Arena Junkies and the NA Arena Forums.

[Myta]

this argument would carry some weight if not for the fact that Blizzard are working their asses off trying to promote WoW as a viable esport

also just because something is very skillful at the top end of play does not mean it can't be accessible at the lower end. old WoW was incredibly challenging as a competitive game, that doesn't mean that noobs weren't also able to have fun.

i have a lot of fun playing cs:go even though it's hard and i totally suck at it

LoL has like 4 buttons. Having Sooth does not make the game better, more complex, have more depth. Making a game needlessly complicated can be a hindrance to getting popular as an Esport in fact.

[Zylos]

Been playing since vanilla and I can't think of a single period (season or otherwise) that the complaints weren't exactly the same...too much burst too much CC, it's really not unique to this expansion.

Personally my pvp fun ended when they started normalizing gear and skills in pvp.

[Dizzeeyooo]

LoL has like 4 buttons. Having Sooth does not make the game better, more complex, have more depth. Making a game needlessly complicated can be a hindrance to getting popular as an Esport in fact.

makes sense when wow pvp was rediculously more popular in the past, vs now where only 150k people are still actively playing arena in NA, for example (confirmed on the recent Q&Q)

[natpick]

said this from start of legion thats why i stopped playing.

[shoegazing]

LoL has like 4 buttons. Having Sooth does not make the game better, more complex, have more depth. Making a game needlessly complicated can be a hindrance to getting popular as an Esport in fact.

would you rather play a second-rate LoL knock-off or a first-rate WoW?

[Crruor]

can we all at least agree that wod mage was completely idiotic

I think this illuminates the problem pvp has right now best. I agree fully, wod mage was horrible in pvp. However, from what i have heard the pve crows loved the playstyle of frost mages in wod (they hated the lack of content and other stuff), for them the class felt super fun to play. And from what ive seen i can only agree.

The game is totally different in pve and pvp. A class that can feel really alive and challenging and great in pve can feel totally shit and useless in pvp. The totally different way pve plays nowadays compared to mop or cata or woltk means the pve designers make the classes fit that, meanwhile pvp hasnt changed at all since TBC.

[RelaZ]

LoL has like 4 buttons. Having Sooth does not make the game better, more complex, have more depth. Making a game needlessly complicated can be a hindrance to getting popular as an Esport in fact.

What? Seriously?

The very example you brought up does make the game better, more complex and causes it to have more depth. Soothing to keep people in combat, cleaning enrages vs warriors, removing grounding totem and spell reflection was a big thing and using it correctly made a big difference.

Do not talk about things you have no clue about.