Nightblooming Frond

[Deleted]

Any1 else feeling this trinket is a total joke on every M+, a total joke on 80% of the boss fights you do, and well yeah a joke in general?

It either does 2% or around 5%, even on Elisande+Gul'dan where there are haste buffs. Is there anything gonna happen to the trinket buff whise? I heard it was gonna get buffed, but that was 2 weeks+ ago. Any clue?

[Hecktix]

Any1 else feeling this trinket is a total joke on every M+, a total joke on 80% of the boss fights you do, and well yeah a joke in general?

It either does 2% or around 5%, even on Elisande+Gul'dan where there are haste buffs. Is there anything gonna happen to the trinket buff whise? I heard it was gonna get buffed, but that was 2 weeks+ ago. Any clue?

No one ever said it was going to be buff. A Blizz blue post said that they were "looking at it" but that's about it. I definitely agree that this is a terrible trinket for M+. I think the proc can do some really good damage but the proc rate just needs to be more consistent. If it consistently did 4-5% EVERY fight, then the trinket would be amazing but some fights I see it barely touching 3% of my total damage.

[Scatterblack]

I see about 7% of total damage from Recursive Strikes but I use Slice and Dice. Poisonburst-Raganros who also uses Slice and Dice logs show around 6-10%. I think he has talked about Frond being reliant on faster attack speed. Not sure about RtB users or other two rogue specs.

[Deleted]

I see about 7% of total damage from Recursive Strikes but I use Slice and Dice. Poisonburst-Raganros who also uses Slice and Dice logs show around 6-10%. I think he has talked about Frond being reliant on faster attack speed. Not sure about RtB users or other two rogue specs.

If you go Haste spec that is yeah, but haste has been proven the worst stat for every Rogue spec out there. So, going that just for a trinket is a DPS loss (most likely) by itself already.

[Hecktix]

It is definitely going to perform better with faster attack speed, since you can apply the proc more often before the buff falls off. Maybe they can up the damage or the proc rate which can turn this trinket into a must-have for outlaw.

[Scatterblack]

If you go Haste spec that is yeah, but haste has been proven the worst stat for every Rogue spec out there. So, going that just for a trinket is a DPS loss (most likely) by itself already.

No, not haste. Slice and Dice has inherent 100% Attack Speed. It has been shown that with higher attack speed Frond is exponentially better. I am saying with Slice and Dice Frond is amazing. Without it, it needs rework. So I agree with you Frond needs to be revisited by Blizzard. You don't want a trinket that is only valuable with one specific talent in one specific spec. I was just showing you how it can be made valuable under a limited scenario.

[Aureli]

Its still pretty much ok trinket. Tons of agility and proc doing 3-5percent dmg per fight. This is second best ST trinket in nighthold (CoF is only better)

[Deleted]

Its still pretty much ok trinket. Tons of agility and proc doing 3-5percent dmg per fight. This is second best ST trinket in nighthold (CoF is only better)

I disagree. Ill find some logs in a sec, but our other rogue in the raid cleared full HC/partly Mythic with us yesterday, with Draught 890+socket and NB 895+socket. Draught did more dmg, every. single. fight. Even though it sims lower, NB just seems to sim wayyyyy too high.

[iky43210]

It's absolutely shit. I've seen it done 7% only ever once, vast majority of the time it does 2% and I'd be happy if it reaches 4%

[stevan021]

it's complete dogcrap

[Strah]

I disagree. Ill find some logs in a sec, but our other rogue in the raid cleared full HC/partly Mythic with us yesterday, with Draught 890+socket and NB 895+socket. Draught did more dmg, every. single. fight. Even though it sims lower, NB just seems to sim wayyyyy too high.

Draught, however gives haste and the on use effect. Frond is tons of agility and a proc. The question is whether the 2k agility covers the damage difference between frong and draught.

[Deleted]

Draught, however gives haste and the on use effect. Frond is tons of agility and a proc. The question is whether the 2k agility covers the damage difference between frong and draught.

Usually simming would be the answer, but it just seems to sim so much lower (DoS) than the dmg it does in reality. That said, NB sims ALOT higher than it does in reality. You have to take into account that DoS will scale with:
- Vendetta
- Mastery (Agonizing Poison stacks to be precise)
Nexto that, it scales amazingly on Gul'dan fight with the extra action button for even more on-demand burst.

[Deleted]

Utter shit. Used it al evening last night, two fights it did 2-3 m dmg, one 7 m. Its to random and weak. Sure will see fights its good but not always. Guildie used draught of souls and had 16-24 m dmg / fight from it, i had mabye 20% of that from fond on same fights. Rng is shit, shuld be PPM min and always proc in start or use effect to be good.

Most trinkets even myt+ is better. Prob worst progress trinket in nh atm

[Hecktix]

Usually simming would be the answer, but it just seems to sim so much lower (DoS) than the dmg it does in reality. That said, NB sims ALOT higher than it does in reality. You have to take into account that DoS will scale with:
- Vendetta
- Mastery (Agonizing Poison stacks to be precise)
Nexto that, it scales amazingly on Gul'dan fight with the extra action button for even more on-demand burst.

It does not scale with Vendetta. Vendetta only affects rogue abilities.

[Xanatu]

This trinket can blow me. It regularly procs for <3 mil on 6-7 minute fights. It's worse than a stat-stick in most cases.

[Deleted]

Utter shit. Used it al evening last night, two fights it did 2-3 m dmg, one 7 m. Its to random and weak. Sure will see fights its good but not always. Guildie used draught of souls and had 16-24 m dmg / fight from it, i had mabye 20% of that from fond on same fights. Rng is shit, shuld be PPM min and always proc in start or use effect to be good.

Most trinkets even myt+ is better. Prob worst progress trinket in nh atm

Well you cant ignorera all the agility on Frond, like 1900 agility is nice to add to the rng.

[Deleted]

It does not scale with Vendetta. Vendetta only affects rogue abilities.

Crap, didn't think of that. Makes it slightly worse.

Well you cant ignorera all the agility on Frond, like 1900 agility is nice to add to the rng.

There are several trinkets out there that give 1700-1900 agility, while also giving you 1.3k mastery. For instance, Ive got both Eye of Guarm and Urn around 880-890. You'd hope that a 895 trinket with socket from NH, with a 'proc' something instead of base stat increase would do better..well, no.

On top of that the fact that the trinket is garbage for every other class besides Enh. Id love to see some kind of buff for it really. I dont like RNG, but I like it enough to prefer it over a 'blank' trinket that doesn't give me the option to 'manage' anything.

[Hecktix]

Crap, didn't think of that. Makes it slightly worse.



There are several trinkets out there that give 1700-1900 agility, while also giving you 1.3k mastery. For instance, Ive got both Eye of Guarm and Urn around 880-890. You'd hope that a 895 trinket with socket from NH, with a 'proc' something instead of base stat increase would do better..well, no.

On top of that the fact that the trinket is garbage for every other class besides Enh. Id love to see some kind of buff for it really. I dont like RNG, but I like it enough to prefer it over a 'blank' trinket that doesn't give me the option to 'manage' anything.

NBF synergizes well with Slice and Dice actually. More consistent damage with SnD.

[Deleted]

Well actually i guess some people are confused by this. It sims for ~4% of total damage in a 5minute Patchwork fight with a ~25% uptime or ~4 proccs within that 5 minutes. (as Outlaw)

However, lets clarify some things.
- the 4proccs within 5 Minutes are more or less a "realistic" estimation. (in a patchwork fight)
- all trinkets with really low RPPM suffer from high variation on DMG-output (due to fightlengths)
- all trinkets with really low RPPM are bad for short Fights / Mythic+, thats why in every guide its recommended to use a statstick for that.

If you browse through Warcraftlogs - Nighthold Mythic Krosus (Outlaw) you'll find some Rogues with that trinket mirroring the estimated amount of total% damage simulated. f.E. :
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=13
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=8 (Xanatus log)

As you can see the damage estimation is even a little bit to careful actually it does more then the simulator says.

The Problem however is that you can be extremly unlucky and get less then 4 proccs, like this guy:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=20

What happened is, with this trinket, every procc within one fight makes its next procc deal more damage and if you are missing only 1 procc within that 5minutes the damage difference is really huge. the one missing Procc does make his Trinket seem 80% weaker. (in only 15less hits).

if you compare it, to another Trinket f.e. "Six-Feather Fan" which proccs really ALOT, you'll see even with 3 Proccs in 5Minutes Nightblooming Frond deals about Equal damage as the same iLvL SFF in %Total Damage.(based on iLvL 890)

So due to the lack of alternative Trinkets i would say for Nighthold while progress and long mythic fights this Trinket is pretty much the best you can get for Outlaw as 2. Trinket. (1. is CoF)

PS: NF can also be really sick in Mythic+ if you never leave combat it stacks to an absurd amount of procc damage. (Hi exploiters)

- - - Updated - - -

NBF synergizes well with Slice and Dice actually. More consistent damage with SnD.

Doesnt matter, because SnD doesnt make the Trinket procc more often and the damage you lose while playing SnD doesnt make up for it.

[Deleted]

PS: NF can also be really sick in Mythic+ if you never leave combat it stacks to an absurd amount of procc damage. (Hi exploiters)

Wouldn't that mean hitting the dummy would increase the damage to absurd amounts? I've seen people providing trinket logs for SimC, spending literally hours hitting the dummy. Such a thing hasn't been reported ever since. Also the logs you provided (and other logs I looked up in doubt) didn't support that statement either. The damage increases over the duration of the buff itself, not over the duration of the fight (i.e. amount of proccs).