The jump from 7/10M to 8/10M

[styil]

How large is the jump from 7/10M to 8/10M these days? With Nighthold wrapping up, is there enough time for a 7/10M guild to get Augur down?

Or is it more advisable to wrap up Mythic Helya first?

[Deleted]

How large is the jump from 7/10M to 8/10M these days? With Nighthold wrapping up, is there enough time for a 7/10M guild to get Augur down?

Or is it more advisable to wrap up Mythic Helya first?

Star Augur is easy after all those nerfs. We have more wipes on Bota or Krosus than on Star Augur.

The reputation it has comes from the unnerfed version which was super hard.

[Multistryke]

Not that significant, go for it.

[meroko]

the only real challenge left is Guldan and even that's much easier

[Deleted]

Helya is harder then augur and ellisande if you ask me. way more unforgiving mechanics.

[Emerald Archer]

Helya is harder then augur and ellisande if you ask me. way more unforgiving mechanics.

What? Elisande has way more unforgiving mechanics than Helya. Helya is a joke now.

[Toybox]

It's not really a jump at all nowadays. If you can kill Botanist, you can kill Augur.

[Deleted]

What? Elisande has way more unforgiving mechanics than Helya. Helya is a joke now.

Most people can survive a mistake on rings nowadays, with 3 ring strat p2 and 3 are a looot easier and if you fall behind on blue adds it's not really a problem anymore.

meanwhile on helya missing a tentacle still screws you bigtime, the lazers still one shot, and there are more dps checks and there is just more going on at once at any given point.

[Emerald Archer]

Most people can survive a mistake on rings nowadays, with 3 ring strat p2 and 3 are a looot easier and if you fall behind on blue adds it's not really a problem anymore.

meanwhile on helya missing a tentacle still screws you bigtime, the lazers still one shot, and there are more dps checks and there is just more going on at once at any given point.

It's not the rings along that causes people do die, ofc you can get hit by one, but the constant dmg going out to the raid will usually kill you. Missing soaks can also easily kill you, not having someone leave with the debuff in p3 can also wipe you.

Helya, you get 2 lots of tentacles, the 2 crossover at the start which can be soaked by 1 person, and then the front+back one after which is soaked by 2 people, it's a really really simple mechanic, just have 3 non-braindead people do it and you'll be fine.

Lasers still one shot, but it's significantly easier to avoid that joke of a mechanic, than the rings (which are also a joke tbf but your whole raid is at risk of being hit by them, whereas with the lasers it's only half your raid at a time)

And the dps checks are not a thing on helya anymore, with the new dps. There might seem like there's a lot going on, but there's really only one thing at a time you ever need to do. And it's usually very simple.

[Relapses]

OBLIGATORYAUGARMEME.MKV

Augar shouldn't be too bad. Once your raid understands what shapes look like and understands to put their icky green shit in the fun, happy little circles, the fight is pretty much a joke.

[Marrilaife]

meanwhile on helya missing a tentacle still screws you bigtime, the lazers still one shot, and there are more dps checks and there is just more going on at once at any given point. Has helya even been nerfed at all actually?

She was somewhere in December to require less dispels, adds have less HP and so on, but biggest "nerf" to her was NH gear levels and 7.2 traits, overgearing always helps, sometimes more sometimes less.

[EzG]

It's not the rings along that causes people do die, ofc you can get hit by one, but the constant dmg going out to the raid will usually kill you. Missing soaks can also easily kill you, not having someone leave with the debuff in p3 can also wipe you.

Helya, you get 2 lots of tentacles, the 2 crossover at the start which can be soaked by 1 person, and then the front+back one after which is soaked by 2 people, it's a really really simple mechanic, just have 3 non-braindead people do it and you'll be fine.

Lasers still one shot, but it's significantly easier to avoid that joke of a mechanic, than the rings (which are also a joke tbf but your whole raid is at risk of being hit by them, whereas with the lasers it's only half your raid at a time)

And the dps checks are not a thing on helya anymore, with the new dps. There might seem like there's a lot going on, but there's really only one thing at a time you ever need to do. And it's usually very simple.

Helya was nerfed pretty significantly and the addition of nh and material onwards makes her much easier than elisande now. Pre-nerf Helya was no joke. Not only was it a pretty large dps check you had to perfectly coordinate movements and dispels while moving and doing other things. I killed her prenerf and by the kill attempt it was like a highly coordinated dance with the boss. Elisande was nothing like her. Nowadays Helya is a pushover and elisande is clearly more difficult.

[Emerald Archer]

Helya was nerfed pretty significantly and the addition of nh and material onwards makes her much easier than elisande now. Pre-nerf Helya was no joke. Not only was it a pretty large dps check you had to perfectly coordinate movements and dispels while moving and doing other things. I killed her prenerf and by the kill attempt it was like a highly coordinated dance with the boss. Elisande was nothing like her. Nowadays Helya is a pushover and elisande is clearly more difficult.

Obviously she was harder pre-nerf and pre-gear, but that has nothing to do with the current topic.

[Deleted]

It's not the rings along that causes people do die, ofc you can get hit by one, but the constant dmg going out to the raid will usually kill you. Missing soaks can also easily kill you, not having someone leave with the debuff in p3 can also wipe you.

Helya, you get 2 lots of tentacles, the 2 crossover at the start which can be soaked by 1 person, and then the front+back one after which is soaked by 2 people, it's a really really simple mechanic, just have 3 non-braindead people do it and you'll be fine.

Lasers still one shot, but it's significantly easier to avoid that joke of a mechanic, than the rings (which are also a joke tbf but your whole raid is at risk of being hit by them, whereas with the lasers it's only half your raid at a time)

And the dps checks are not a thing on helya anymore, with the new dps. There might seem like there's a lot going on, but there's really only one thing at a time you ever need to do. And it's usually very simple.

yeah thats what people who have killed it always say. people who are just starting progress have a different perspective.

i mean helya is just objectively the harder fight no matter how you look at it.
it last longer, the phases are very distinct, the mechanics are simply at a faster pace, there are more mechanics, there are mechanics that have no counterpart in heroic at all, heck even the fatboss guide is 10minutes longer which is a decent ballpark indicator.

i mean people are gonna be carefull to pug helya even in ToS gear, while ellisande pugs are gonna be "it's just like heroic just soak orbs and nuke boss".

[Relapses]

i mean people are gonna be carefull to pug helya even in ToS gear, while ellisande pugs are gonna be "it's just like heroic just soak orbs and nuke boss".

I cannot, for the life of me, imagine why anybody would want to PuG Helya. Literally the only reason guilds still kill her is because they want those swag wowprogress points.

[Cheze]

tbh botanist is harder than augur now; he no longer requires particularly high dps and the increase to conjunction duration made the hardest mechanic pretty easy to deal with

[Drish]

Star augur will rely more on the individual awareness, as any of the 20 people can wipe your team.

Helya will require more on your raid leader, knowing how everything works, where to assign people, and how to do the callouts.


Also keep in mind the attitiudes of your raiders. Helya to a lot of people is mentally "old content" (even though she still has her cutting edge achievement), so there may be people who feel they can underperform or don't take it seriously. The opposite may happen on Star Augur, where people know its a hard fight going in and may focus up a bit more.

Neither fight really has a dps check anymore, if you simply have everyone able to live you skip all the bad combos.

[Emerald Archer]

yeah thats what people who have killed it always say. people who are just starting progress have a different perspective.

i mean helya is just objectively the harder fight no matter how you look at it.
it last longer, the phases are very distinct, the mechanics are simply at a faster pace, there are more mechanics, there are mechanics that have no counterpart in heroic at all, heck even the fatboss guide is 10minutes longer which is a decent ballpark indicator.

i mean people are gonna be carefull to pug helya even in ToS gear, while ellisande pugs are gonna be "it's just like heroic just soak orbs and nuke boss".

I have killed first both, and if we're discussing from a current progressing on them point of view, then you are extremely incorrect. Helya is a half a night-1night prog fight, Elisande is still a 2-4 night prog boss.

From a farming them after prog, again Helya is the easier fight.

[EzG]

Obviously she was harder pre-nerf and pre-gear, but that has nothing to do with the current topic.

You're right. It wasn't explicitly stated whether we were talking pre/post nerf. Mechanically, Helya is still more complicated. Harder (now)? Probably not imo. Elisande with nerfs/gear/etc is pretty simple still. You're argument against Helya can play both ways in terms of fight simplicity.

[Deleted]

Augur is easy mode now with the traits, ilvl and legendaries people have. You can skip the second cast on the first add with enough dps.