Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[ralilioth]

Its not really the 112 lvl that debunks that Leak but the class.

Void Seeker
- Available to all races.
- 3 specializations. Absorber (ranged tank that controls a pet-like void illusion), Disturber (ranged DPS) and Restorer (melee healer).

- A new class just after we had a class? No chance.
- The names for the specs have got to be the worst i've ever seen in a leak.

[Soulwind]

@Soulwind yes you are differently right for the most part but I don’t think that excludes N’zoth from being the final boss. Both MoP and WoD had final bosses and areas that were pretty radically different than the initial theme of the xpac.

So you can have the beginning and middle be about Azshara and end with N’zoth.

As a villain, maybe. It would have to be presented extremely well, because right now I'm imagining Ulduar after ICC, and that would be very, very weak. Yogg-Saron was nobody before we entered that room with the chains, and he was nobody once we left.

As a boss itself, sure. A final mythic-only boss in the final raid, or a one-boss raid during the content drought would be fine. But he would have to be preceded by someone, not something.

I've said it before, but I do not think the expansion focus will be Azshara. I feel like she's a good villain but not interesting enough to carry the whole thing.

What do we know about her, really? She's ambitious and vain. But what is her plan, currently? What are her motivations? What is her current relationship with N'zoth and the Burning Legion? Does she have other allies? How are her actions affecting those who live underwater?

They could go anywhere with Azshara, just like they could with Deathwing before Cataclysm (and they went the "insane large brute" route, which wasn't ideal).

Sure she could just be the same Azshara from Well of Eternity, but she could also be someone very different.

A known name, an world-ending powerlevel, and a mostly blank canvas, is there another character with so much potential to be an amazing villain right now?

[Osiria]

I mean the border looks better at least - although I'm certainly no expert.

Border does feel similar to Kvaldir ships design.

[miffy23]

Its not really the 112 lvl that debunks that Leak but the class.

Void Seeker
- Available to all races.
- 3 specializations. Absorber (ranged tank that controls a pet-like void illusion), Disturber (ranged DPS) and Restorer (melee healer).

- A new class just after we had a class? No chance.
- The names for the specs have got to be the worst i've ever seen in a leak.

The names i agree with, the other thing is just another assumption based on patterns.
In fact it makes a lot of sense to me in the context of Alleria's out-of-nowhere story. Makes a lot more sense if it's a vehicle to set up a new class. But the names kind ruin it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

As a villain, maybe. It would have to be presented extremely well, because right now I'm imagining Ulduar after ICC, and that would be very, very weak. Yogg-Saron was nobody before we entered that room with the chains, and he was nobody once we left.

As a boss itself, sure. A final mythic-only boss in the final raid, or a one-boss raid during the content drought would be fine. But he would have to be preceded by someone, not something.

Because information on the Old Gods only got more increased after Wrath, also if anything Yogg could of been saved for something else entirely but it is what it is.

[KrakHed]

Now explain who is N'zoth. Not what he is, but who he is. Explain the difference between C'thun, Yogg-Saron, N'zoth and Y'shaarj.

They are, by design, hard to think about, and basically impossible to relate to. They're something we can't and shouldn't understand. They're inspired by Lovecraft, the man essentially created a new genre of horror/fantasy by having these faceless, cryptic forces and creatures messing with minds and warping reality.

The moment you give these things a body, the moment you give them a motivation, the moment you turn them into people, they lose their appeal. They are a presence, an influence, a will, but they are not characters.

Explaining the differences between the Old Gods is tricky, because their details were kept vague. It's not that they're impossible to characterize, but effort needs to be put into it.

C'thun is the all-seeing eye. He speaks in a monotonous whisper, more simply making observations than conversing, sharing secrets to forging great weapons with his faithful.

Yogg-Saron is the Beast of a Thousand Maws, boisterous and arrogant. Maniacally laughing and boasting, chewing all of the scenery. Rather than supporting and aiding his servitor race, his main forces are the perverted armies of his own captors.

Y'shaarj is a creature of foul emotions, a seven-headed devourer of hope who spits out despair. Who spurs on hatred and violence, drives people to atrocities through fear and pride. Well, except for the fact he's dead. Which is why Y'shaarj couldn't be the villain.

N'Zoth could be characterized. Not as a humanoid, but as a God. He can have motives and behaviors unique to himself, without losing the fact that he's a Dark God. We can bring up Lovecraft, but the Old Gods in WoW have never been truly Lovecraftian. He can have real presence and focus that builds him up as something quite distinct, and have a form unique to himself. That will indeed have tentacles. But as a God of the Deep, N'Zoth need not be burrowed into the earth like all the others. N'Zoth can be like a blasphemous parody of a kraken, one mobile and free like no other Old Gods were. One more flexible and cunning than the others, relatively nimble both physically and mentally.

And yes, he'd likely communicate his will through his followers as well. His tendrils run far. He brought on the Nightmare, corrupted important political and religious figures among both Elf and Humanity. The leaders of the Church of the Holy Light belong to him, near as we can tell.

[Tartys]

They said they will use 10 level increases because 5 didnt feel right. It was either during WoD reveal or later when they said it.

I know that dear... Infact I wrote that is bizarre.
But it does not mean that it's the least credible thing about that leak ... which for me, as I wrote, is nothing else.

Blizzard infact may decide to change model: instead of an expantion every two years, make small expansions more often and/or raise levels with patches...
Also, many players complain about the exping phase and actually, exping require just 3/4 weeks... and after that, your progress in the game is based only on the Item levels, so, maybe is even possible that Blizzard can consider other options. So, to me, is not so incredible IF there is a system that justifies this.

is the reason why that dont shock me like that class that start at level 77

[Konteil]

Oh don't get me wrong. I don't believe it's real. But this is a much better design then the last tov one. Holy shit did that look bad.

agreed
that was pretty bad.

[SniperCT]

As a villain, maybe. It would have to be presented extremely well, because right now I'm imagining Ulduar after ICC, and that would be very, very weak. Yogg-Saron was nobody before we entered that room with the chains, and he was nobody once we left.

As a boss itself, sure. A final mythic-only boss in the final raid, or a one-boss raid during the content drought would be fine. But he would have to be preceded by someone, not something.



What do we know about her, really? She's ambitious and vain. But what is her plan, currently? What are her motivations? What is her current relationship with N'zoth and the Burning Legion? Does she have other allies? How are her actions affecting those who live underwater?

They could go anywhere with Azshara, just like they could with Deathwing before Cataclysm (and they went the "insane large brute" route, which wasn't ideal).

Sure she could just be the same Azshara from Well of Eternity, but she could also be someone very different.

A known name, an world-ending powerlevel, and a mostly blank canvas, is there another character with so much potential to be an amazing villain right now?

All of this! Also nearly 20 pages (I have each page set to max comments) since I went to bed damn

[Drekmar]

is the reason why that dont shock me like that class that start at level 77

77? You might want to fix that, hun.

[Soulwind]

Explaining the differences between the Old Gods is tricky, because their details were kept vague. It's not that they're impossible to characterize, but effort needs to be put into it.

C'thun is the all-seeing eye. He speaks in a monotonous whisper, more simply making observations than conversing, sharing secrets to forging great weapons with his faithful.

Yogg-Saron is the Beast of a Thousand Maws, boisterous and arrogant. Maniacally laughing and boasting, chewing all of the scenery. Rather than supporting and aiding his servitor race, his main forces are the perverted armies of his own captors.

Y'shaarj is a creature of foul emotions, a secen-headed devourer of hope who spits out despair. Who spurs on hatred and violence, drives people to atrocities through fear and pride. Well, except for the fact he's dead. Which is why Y'shaarj couldn't be the villain.

N'Zoth could be characterized. Not as a humanoid, but as a God. He can have motives and behaviors unique to himself, without losing the fact that he's a Dark God. We can bring up Lovecraft, but the Old Gods in WoW have never been truly Lovecraftian. He can have real presence and focus that builds him up as something quite distinct, and have a form unique to himself. That will indeed have tentacles. But as a God of the Deep, N'Zoth need not be burrowed into the earth like all the others. N'Zoth can be like a blasphemous parody of a kraken, one mobile and free like no other Old Gods were. One more flexible and cunning than the others, relatively nimble both physically and mentally.

And yes, he'd likely communicate his will through his followers as well.

Something I came up with when Whispers of the Old Gods was announced, is that the female troll could be the avatar of N'zoth.

Having a body like that, he could have travelled the world ever since the Black Empire ended, and lived among mortals.

That could work as a villain. But I don't think Blizzard is heading in that direction with Old Gods. Xal'atath is the closest they've been to making a character out of an Old God (and we don't even know if she's one), and her bipolar personality and unclear motivations keep her from becoming one.

If N'zoth was to come out as the Old God who doesn't want to be a weapon for the Void Lords, as this individual who would rather survive among mortals than die for their master's cause. As someone who fears something, wants something, and is willing to make sacrifices and fight for it. Then it could be interesting.

But again, I think he's just going to be a cackling mass of tentacles with no motivation other than destruction and no plan other than to spread corruption.

[Ateo]

Explaining the differences between the Old Gods is tricky, because their details were kept vague. It's not that they're impossible to characterize, but effort needs to be put into it.

C'thun is the all-seeing eye. He speaks in a monotonous whisper, more simply making observations than conversing, sharing secrets to forging great weapons with his faithful.

Yogg-Saron is the Beast of a Thousand Maws, boisterous and arrogant. Maniacally laughing and boasting, chewing all of the scenery. Rather than supporting and aiding his servitor race, his main forces are the perverted armies of his own captors.

Y'shaarj is a creature of foul emotions, a seven-headed devourer of hope who spits out despair. Who spurs on hatred and violence, drives people to atrocities through fear and pride. Well, except for the fact he's dead. Which is why Y'shaarj couldn't be the villain.

N'Zoth could be characterized. Not as a humanoid, but as a God. He can have motives and behaviors unique to himself, without losing the fact that he's a Dark God. We can bring up Lovecraft, but the Old Gods in WoW have never been truly Lovecraftian. He can have real presence and focus that builds him up as something quite distinct, and have a form unique to himself. That will indeed have tentacles. But as a God of the Deep, N'Zoth need not be burrowed into the earth like all the others. N'Zoth can be like a blasphemous parody of a kraken, one mobile and free like no other Old Gods were. One more flexible and cunning than the others, relatively nimble both physically and mentally.

And yes, he'd likely communicate his will through his followers as well. His tendrils run far. He brought on the Nightmare, corrupted important political and religious figures among both Elf and Humanity. The leaders of the Church of the Holy Light belong to him, near as we can tell.

Beautifully written. But I do believe that N’Zoth will be much more active than the others were. I believe he’ll be completely free from his prison unlike the others and possibly be moving around as you stated but it’s been said in lore that they are like tumors on Azeroth. Him moving would be going against this and be yet another retcon.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Sub-races like Mag'har and Dark Iron? Yea, they're just cosmetic for sure. Highmountain Tauren, Lightforged, Void Elves and Nightbourne? Definitely not.



I'm not confusing gameplay with lore. That's a lazy design. Blizzard won't do that, which is exactly why we almost get nothing in terms of customization and new races. They're picky about these things. They won't just slap something at the Night Elf starting zone, call it Void Elf and say Shadowmelt is supposed to come from the void.

They could create similar racials, sure, change in terms of concept, like icons, spell effects and name which is easy, but, it's just racials, why even bother with *not* creating new ones? But the problem still is, why the heck do these Void Elves would start with Night Elves when they're a completely separated group? And in order to portray them as a sub-race, you're stabilishing they are Night Elves. It would be like just slapping Blood Elves in their starting zone and calling it a day.

The idea they would use one of the Legion zones in game to create a starting zone for these new races feels way more appropriate. No extra need for artistic work.

And those examples of mechanics are very different. That has to do with consistency on what each player is supposed to be able to do or not ingame.

Highmountain Tauren are... literally... the Tauren models with moose antlers and tattoos. How in the hell is that not cosmetic? The same can be said for the Lightforged Draenei.

[Spriggs]

N'Zoth is more active than the others. He got an entire expansion dedicated to a pawn of his (Deathwing) and we never even encountered him.

[GoodUsername55]

Let's try to get to 1400 pages today, it seems easily achievable.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Let's try to get to 1400 pages today, it seems easily achievable.

Honestly, we should push for 2000 pages before BlizzCon (that's def. doable).

[Fahrad Wagner]

It's officially the new azshara log in meme now.

Thanks guys, you fucking did it.

In a sense, I'm so happy this happened.

[Ragnarocket]

As a villain, maybe. It would have to be presented extremely well, because right now I'm imagining Ulduar after ICC, and that would be very, very weak. Yogg-Saron was nobody before we entered that room with the chains, and he was nobody once we left.

As a boss itself, sure. A final mythic-only boss in the final raid, or a one-boss raid during the content drought would be fine. But he would have to be preceded by someone, not something.



What do we know about her, really? She's ambitious and vain. But what is her plan, currently? What are her motivations? What is her current relationship with N'zoth and the Burning Legion? Does she have other allies? How are her actions affecting those who live underwater?

They could go anywhere with Azshara, just like they could with Deathwing before Cataclysm (and they went the "insane large brute" route, which wasn't ideal).

Sure she could just be the same Azshara from Well of Eternity, but she could also be someone very different.

A known name, an world-ending powerlevel, and a mostly blank canvas, is there another character with so much potential to be an amazing villain right now?

Honestly...I think Azshara could be planning a lot more than we know. This is all gonna sound CRAZY but here's my take on it:

We know that Azshara considers herself equal to a god - Sargeras. She considered herself worthy enough to be his consort. She was strong, this was acknowledged by Mannoroth but of course we all know that she wouldn't equal a Titan. The thing is, she's been sitting at the bottom of the sea next to the Well of Eternity (Titan power) for the last 10,000 years. Now we have a wound that is leaking into the very sands of Silithus and she may try and get involved in that...hard to say at this point.

We also have N'zoth, a Void entity that very much wants to corrupt and turn the nascent Titan into a Void Titan. As of now all efforts to corrupt her have happened slowly and steadily. The Old Gods have definitely worn her down but she's not beaten. Now that N'zoth is (possibly) the only one left he knows that he needs to make something happen.

What if Azshara is using N'zoth's desire to get to the Titan spirit as a way to...I dunno FUSE herself with the Titan and become the Goddess she's always seen herself as? N'zoth might be on board with this idea as well since I highly doubt the Void cares what kind of a Void Titan they get as long as it happens. Perhaps the expansion could be about us trying to protect Azeroth from Azshara (those names are similar...) as she tries to kill the baby Titan and replace her. Perhaps an over-saturation of Titan Energy is all she really needs.

This just feels like something Azshara - the Light of Lights would believe she was destined for and only she should be worthy of ascending to godhood.

[GoodUsername55]

Honestly, we should push for 2000 pages before BlizzCon (that's def. doable).

I believe we're getting roughly 70 pages per day, but iirc the 24 hours up to blizzcon things get crazy, thus it is doable.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Honestly, we should push for 2000 pages before BlizzCon (that's def. doable).

Oh, we will, we're already almost at 1400.

- - - Updated - - -

I believe we're getting roughly 70 pages per day, but iirc the 24 hours up to blizzcon things get crazy, thus it is doable.

Closer to 90-100/day recently !