7.2.5 Where is my ret buff?

[Balinus]

Maybe I'm not paying close enough attention, but I swear BoJ is outdamaging TV for me, especially with the 4pc.

But BoJ is physical dmg, while TV is holy. If u guys play Ret and dont know the diference in physical and holy damage, it doesnt surprise me the amount of people saying that dont do dmg this tier........

[Jester Joe]

But BoJ is physical dmg, while TV is holy. If u guys play Ret and dont know the diference in physical and holy damage, it doesnt surprise me the amount of people saying that dont do dmg this tier........

Because surely that means the amount of scaling/buffing to BoJ could NEVER outpass something that hasn't been buffed by any tier sets or recent hotfixes.

Are you serious right now?

[xxcloud417xx]

But BoJ is physical dmg, while TV is holy. If u guys play Ret and dont know the diference in physical and holy damage, it doesnt surprise me the amount of people saying that dont do dmg this tier........

And this matters because...?

This isn't D&D, bosses don't have DR on damage-types... if physical damage DR was a thing, warriors wouldn't be doing nearly as well as they currently are... So if you have a point, please enlighten me because I have clearly missed it.

[Sandraudiga]

Maybe I'm not paying close enough attention, but I swear BoJ is outdamaging TV for me, especially with the 4pc.

As an example last night my highest TV hit for 2,773,136, and my highest BoJ hit for 3,282,411. That being said if I look at the average critical hits of the same abilties TV was 1,248,195 and BoJ was 2,144,896.

So definitely for me BoJ is hitting harder per hit. That is only using a single relic that affects BoJ, if I had three it would be even worse.

[Dalamian]

Because surely that means the amount of scaling/buffing to BoJ could NEVER outpass something that hasn't been buffed by any tier sets or recent hotfixes.

Are you serious right now?

[Reith]

It doesn't even matter if BoJ does more damage per hit.

[Jester Joe]

As an example last night my highest TV hit for 2,773,136, and my highest BoJ hit for 3,282,411. That being said if I look at the average critical hits of the same abilties TV was 1,248,195 and BoJ was 2,144,896.

So definitely for me BoJ is hitting harder per hit. That is only using a single relic that affects BoJ, if I had three it would be even worse.

Yeah, that's basically the same for me, and I did mean one BoJ against one TV, as over the entire fight you're also going to have Zeal/CS to pull off more TVs, but still.

It doesn't even matter if BoJ does more damage per hit.

It's extremely awkward for a generator to do more damage than the finisher.

[Gracin]

I am sorry Ret Paladins but your buffs are in another patch!

But it's alright because we have class fantasy and Ashbringer in our side!

/s for those of you who couldn't see it dripping from my comment

[Deleted]

Aww cmon guys... look at your damage meter breakdown. What does more overall damage across the fight? TV or BoW? I agree that it's a bit awkward, but it doesn't really matter. TV still does alot more damage overall.

I do wish that 7% aura buff included TV aswell. It's really annoying that it doesn't. The way its looking though, we will be stacking mastery and TV will end up hitting harder again.

[Reith]

Aww cmon guys... look at your damage meter breakdown. What does more overall damage across the fight? TV or BoW? I agree that it's a bit awkward, but it doesn't really matter. TV still does alot more damage overall.

I do wish that 7% aura buff included TV aswell. It's really annoying that it doesn't. The way its looking though, we will be stacking mastery and TV will end up hitting harder again.

it includes everything. the datamine isn't completely accurate.

[Deleted]

it includes everything. the datamine isn't completely accurate.

If it's the case, i'm pleased because a 7% TV buff equals about a 3% damage buff by itself in ST.

[killwithpwr]

it includes everything. the datamine isn't completely accurate.

Are you sure?
@Nemmer, nkw i realize why my Tv hits harder than BoW, i got so much f***ing Mastery... 30 %....
Guess when i get some more optimised gear ill be lime all those guys whos BoJ does more damage than a TV...
Yet, you are right... Even with the procs, the 8 second CD of BoJ makes TV come far ahead overall...

[Reith]

If it's the case, i'm pleased because a 7% TV buff equals about a 3% damage buff by itself in ST.

7% on the passive spec thing translates to about 5% overall, which is compensation for the AW trait nerf, which isn't a big deal in itself.

[Deleted]

That's what you call "bad game design" and counter intuitive. A thing blizzard usually tries to avoid or fix asap. Just not for ret paladins.
Most of us wanted to shift damage away from spenders...but not by creating a situation where HoPo overcapping becomes a thing.

Would have to be doing over double the current damage to make it worth overcapping HoPo

[killwithpwr]

Yeah, overcapping is still not a thing, because you would still want BoW to be buffed from TV as well as Judge...

[Balinus]

And this matters because...?

This isn't D&D, bosses don't have DR on damage-types... if physical damage DR was a thing, warriors wouldn't be doing nearly as well as they currently are... So if you have a point, please enlighten me because I have clearly missed it.

Yeah you are right.....retadins were not using divine hammer in single target in Nighthold because it is holy and BoJ is physical.....yeah nvm.

[xxcloud417xx]

Yeah you are right.....retadins were not using divine hammer in single target in Nighthold because it is holy and BoJ is physical.....yeah nvm.

Retadins were using Divine Hammer in Nighthold because there were no real solely single-target fights. DH also did negligibly less damage than BoJ in ST situations (hence why they nerfed it 25% after NH). It basically was better than BoJ in every fight where you had a second target even for a few seconds because of how little it compared to BoJ's ST damage.

Again this had nothing to do with damage types. So I guess thanks for acknowledging I'm right.

So if we're done with this misinformation and me having to correct it, let's get back to the topic at hand.

Our Ret buffs are in 7.3. That's where. Gonna need to wait a few more months, but they look pretty solid overall, I think. Set bonus is the only thing I'm still iffy about though.

[Balinus]

Retadins were using Divine Hammer in Nighthold because there were no real solely single-target fights. DH also did negligibly less damage than BoJ in ST situations (hence why they nerfed it 25% after NH). It basically was better than BoJ in every fight where you had a second target even for a few seconds because of how little it compared to BoJ's ST damage.

Again this had nothing to do with damage types. So I guess thanks for acknowledging I'm right.

So if we're done with this misinformation and me having to correct it, let's get back to the topic at hand.

Our Ret buffs are in 7.3. That's where. Gonna need to wait a few more months, but they look pretty solid overall, I think. Set bonus is the only thing I'm still iffy about though.

Well i could bring some points back, but teh BoJxDH thing isnt the topic. Getting back to the discussion i dont see why they couldnt do something about ret. They are doin some rework on other classes. I have hope that at 7.3 we will have a something about our class that will make we play diferent. We see lots of pallies complaining about our class. For me if they could bring our mastery of WoD it would be awsome for me. Or Inquisition back, and make our mastery interact with it.

[Jester Joe]

Aww cmon guys... look at your damage meter breakdown. What does more overall damage across the fight? TV or BoW? I agree that it's a bit awkward, but it doesn't really matter. TV still does alot more damage overall.

I do wish that 7% aura buff included TV aswell. It's really annoying that it doesn't. The way its looking though, we will be stacking mastery and TV will end up hitting harder again.

Overall isn't what's being discussed though, it's the comparison of them both one on one.

Like I said, of course TV is going to do more overall, due to CS/Zeal still also generating HP.

[Deleted]

It does matter cause it's the damage per cast that counts when trying to find a solid prio and thats a different concept when it regards generators and spenders (ie a generator is not pure damage only but also generates resources of more damage for its gcd whereas a spender just spends the resources) and someone has to be a bit thorough when deciding if bow has prio over tv when on 2 or 3 hopo or when judge window has 2 secs left w/e and i can see why people wait from someone to come with solid data about it.

Either way we are forced to play bad : either overcap or hit generator when not under the bonus of the t20 or hit spender when not under the judge effect or simply do the /dance for 2-3 secs every now and then.And to be honest this is the only way they may get some work done : they dont care if we ask for a rework or w/e because they can easily hide themselves behind class balance, intended performance and future tuning. But when u tell them that a specc is forced to play bad because generators,spenders,resources are not working well together with the current design they may give it a look.