Thinking about to create a Rogue...

[VeteranoNoob]

Hi guys!

I posted few hours ago a topic asking about classes mobility, seems that rogue is right on the middle. Not top but not bad at all... I am kindda tired to be the slow one (always play DK/Pala), so I was thinking about to get something a bit faster and fun.

Soooo, what do you guys think about Rogue right now? Seems that Sub is the spec to go (DPS wiste), correct? I am Horde, is there a best race? Is there a best profession?

Any advice will be much appreciated!

Thank you very much guys!!!

PS: zero experience as rogue here.

[InfernalDark]

Hi guys!

I posted few hours ago a topic asking about classes mobility

Yea noticed. Guess you didn't know that asking "what class should I play" isn't allowed in here?

[VeteranoNoob]

Yea noticed. Guess you didn't know that asking "what class should I play" isn't allowed in here?

I am not asking what class to play... wth r u talking about?

[Soisoisoi]

I am not asking what class to play... wth r u talking about?

Your title literally says you're thinking about creating a Rogue, so you're wanting our opinions on it to see if it's worth your time playing it - Essentially a "should I play this class?" thread. It's also what the other thread was, too. Mods obviously didn't catch it.

OT: Play it, if you don't like it, you'll know next time everyone's opinions differ to your own and not to re-roll for current FotM numbers. ;p

[Sephiroso]

Professions havent mattered in forever. Race barely matters even when you're in a world top guild.

My advice? Don't make a rogue. Blizzard doesn't know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to rogues.

- - - Updated - - -

Why asking others just do it if you waste time on it you learned something about the class. And this what is best question is not a argument. Play all 3 specs while you lvl and look which one makes the most fun for you. As a side note Rogues are allways good to have because of their utility.

What utility? Soak bot? There's numerous other classes that can handle that in addition to having aoe stuns/grips/etc.

[Sephiroso]

cheat death/feinth= solosoaking things avatar and Kj are the best exampel.

Other classes can do it much better without risking a future death(due to no cheat death when its needed due to an accident). Hunters/DH/pallies on KJ for instance.

I wouldn't list soaking as a utility that sets rogues a part. It used to be that way, but most classes have a way to do the exact same nowadays.

Utility is aoe stuns, grips(to players or monsters), aoe speed boost, buffs, none of which rogue has.

[Varolyn]

Other classes can do it much better without risking a future death(due to no cheat death when its needed due to an accident). Hunters/DH/pallies on KJ for instance.

I wouldn't list soaking as a utility that sets rogues a part. It used to be that way, but most classes have a way to do the exact same nowadays.

Utility is aoe stuns, grips(to players or monsters), aoe speed boost, buffs, none of which rogue has.

If so many classes soak better than rogues then why did Method bring 5 of them on their kill? And it's not just method, the 14 guilds that have killed KJ so far have had 2 rogues bear minimum, with most of them bringing 3-5.

[ymirsson]

Of course does soak set rogues apart. Because it's the only utility we have.
And yes, soaking is utility. Or do we need a third category beyond damage and utility?

[Sephiroso]

If so many classes soak better than rogues then why did Method bring 5 of them on their kill? And it's not just method, the 14 guilds that have killed KJ so far have had 2 rogues bear minimum, with most of them bringing 3-5.

Because sub rogues were like one of the top dps classes at that time? And 4 of the 5 rogues they brought were Sub rogues, if not all 5. (Don't forget the picture floating around that showed they used an Outlaw rogue, was already proven to be a deception on their part).

[Immunize]

Now is a good time to start playing Sub, as it is rather fun to play.

But if you just want a more mobile class then DK/Pala and you like 2H wielding classes more, just go and play Warrior.
They have mobility (2 Charges, HLeap) and are one of the top DPS classes nearly all the time (every Spec viable now, one of them OP most of the time regardless of xpac / patch)

[sirethas]

Lol all you guys saying that other classes can soak/have better utility than rogue clearly never did any mythic raiding. Have you read the Exorsus reditt post, or AllCraft interview with Sco who said that Rogue was the key class to handle mechanics? And it's not only for ToS, but also for Nighthold there were fights which having a rogue made fight considerebly easier.
And up to their utility, Sub rogues have very good dps, not saying it's the best dps out there, but you can be on top of the meters pretty much on any fight. So yeh, if you want to have a spot in raiding, being rogue will give it to you easily, just be prepared to be assigned to almost any "dirty job" to handle.

[Immunize]

I'm the only rogue in my guild in our progression for Mythic Mistress.

On that fight alone (not counting Maiden, Avatar and KJ because I don't know that fights yet), having a rogue with Bufferfish will murder the Boss DPS, which is vital since Mistress has so much health.

You can soak Hydra Shots and Ink on the ground easily and if you use Glaives for example, you can bomb the adds with DfA and ShStorm will pumping constant and high Boss DPS.

Makes life so much easier. I think with mechanics on Avatar and KJ it's even more vital to have at least 1-2 rogues in your raid setup to not bash your head against a brick wall (which that encounters are afaik) and to safe yourself from avoidable wipes.

[Sephiroso]

Of course does soak set rogues apart. Because it's the only utility we have.
And yes, soaking is utility. Or do we need a third category beyond damage and utility?

In my opinion yes. DH have soak utility, dmg, aoe stun, better burst aoe dmg than rogues can output, and darkness(which was taken from us). Hunters have soak utility, they're freaking ranged, have lust/bres utility if BM, has an aoe stun, and dmg. I can go down the list of "dps" classes that have soak and extra utility beyond just soaking that rogues do not have.

[ymirsson]

Still, there are two big categories of "worth" to a classes gain for a raid.
The main purpose (dmg/heal/tank) and anything besides that, which is hard to quantify by the nature of it itself.

Sometimes you need soak, sometimes hard CC sometimes soft CC, sometimes you need someone to kite a mob etc etc etc.
Let us just call it utility and leave the hairsplitting to people with more hair.

[Sephiroso]

Still, there are two big categories of "worth" to a classes gain for a raid.
The main purpose (dmg/heal/tank) and anything besides that, which is hard to quantify by the nature of it itself.

Sometimes you need soak, sometimes hard CC sometimes soft CC, sometimes you need someone to kite a mob etc etc etc.
Let us just call it utility and leave the hairsplitting to people with more hair.

Ok, even if we just left it at "utility" rogues need more is my point. Because at this point in time, all we have is soak, which most dps classes also can do. Maybe i'm being a little disingenuous by saying most, but a large amount can.

[ymirsson]

I dont think we need more utility. But basing such claims on our two subjective perceptions would be more then flawed, i suppose.
Overall, i am content with the current amount of rogues brought to raids. (as far as i can see)

[Deleted]

Ok, even if we just left it at "utility" rogues need more is my point. Because at this point in time, all we have is soak, which most dps classes also can do. Maybe i'm being a little disingenuous by saying most, but a large amount can.

What you fail to realize is how good rogues feint actually is. No other class have such a strong defensive (especially talented) with no CD. Add to that strong mobility, okay DPS and Magic Immune Soak (Cloak) you have the one of the best tools to handle mechanics in raids. You can go on all day with "other classes can soak as well and bla bla" but the real truth is that rogues toolkit is unique and will be stacked vs many bosses even if their DPS is underpowered at that moment. Proof is easy to find if you just analyse logs and watch progression guilds go at it.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

My advice: Make a Rogue and try it out. It's not the easiest to level, but the dynamic changes completely once you hit max level. Good luck.

Have you levelled recently? With looms rogues are great for levelling, sub particularly because of the amount of mobility. Shadowstrike TP lets you blink to a mob, kill it in 2-3 hits, then quickly move on to the next.

[Powerogue]

I've been really enjoying outlaw for its AoE dps, and rogue in general for survivability and utility with feign death, feint, and CoS. (and two CC's, if my darn raid would let me use them...)

When in doubt they have class trials now. Literally just start it up and think "do I like how this plays?" because at the end of the day class/spec balance is so volatile in the long run that will ultimately be what matters.

[Vicivia]

Ok, even if we just left it at "utility" rogues need more is my point. Because at this point in time, all we have is soak, which most dps classes also can do. Maybe i'm being a little disingenuous by saying most, but a large amount can.

I feel like you are drastically underestimating the value of feint... even after the nerf that increased the cost 75% it's still easily the most overpowered ability in the game hands down despite doing no damage. 50% damage reduction for the majority of raid mechanics that can potentially be up 100% of the time, but can always be used for key mechanics while having very minimal impact on your dps. Add to that evasion, CoS and Cheat Death, and you have a class that is almost never at risk of dying to mechanics, can cheese nearly any mechanic in the game, and still have the security blanket of Cheat Death when things get sketchy. There are other classes that CAN soak, and I certainly agree that hunters are a decently close second with their mobility and turtle, but rogues are second to none at reducing raid damage. It's not even a question.