Unholy - Opener with and without Tak'theritrix

[Deleted]

Hey everyone, i've been playing Unh for a while now but i am still confused on how the opener should be done. If anyone could explain how it is done in the most profitable way with and without shoulders would be appreciated

Thanks in advance.

[Lirex]

Hey everyone, i've been playing Unh for a while now but i am still confused on how the opener should be done. If anyone could explain how it is done in the most profitable way with and without shoulders would be appreciated

Thanks in advance.

With the shoulders:

I use Army 6-7 seconds before pull -> Prepot 1 second before pull -> Outbreak on pull -> Festering strike x2 and pray for at least 6x wounds (If less then 6 wounds, i use 1 (or 2 with sudden doom) DC to dump some RP for RC, and then i fester 2 times after Apoc) -> Apocalypse -> Outbreak (Now have 118 RP) -> DA - > DC -> Dark Transformation -> DC DC DC -> and just build RP with Festering wounds if you have 4 wounds or less or Scourge strike if you have 5 wounds or more. Use Chains of Ice if you have the Cold Heart chest, 20 stacks and no runic power for DC. Spend your Sudden Doom (Free DC) proccs as soon as you get them.

[Deleted]

Open with two FE as it helps with rng?

Also don't open with army.

Can't write more help atm at work on phone

[AmberBelle]

Same rotation as with shoulders, you just don't have to prioritize everything over DT and you don't need to save DT for DA. With the shoulders see lirex's post. Also don't let your disease drop and try to keep up unholy frenzy as much as possible.

[Rixarius]

I would still pop DT after Apoc so that your ghoul doesn't pop too many wounds before you can get a 6 wound apoc off

[DigiTeX]

My opener is a little bit different but it plays out more smoothly than "default" one.

Prepot > Outbreak > FS FS > Apoc (wounds does not matter on opener, later only if >6) > specter > chains > army > outbreak > DA > coil > DT > coil > coil...

Opening that way does not involve frustrating waiting for wounds and does not waste master of ghouls uptime.

[Premove]

My opener is a little bit different but it plays out more smoothly than "default" one.

Prepot > Outbreak > FS FS > Apoc (wounds does not matter on opener, later only if >6) > specter > chains > army > outbreak > DA > coil > DT > coil > coil...

Opening that way does not involve frustrating waiting for wounds and does not waste master of ghouls uptime.

If you feel your opener is "more smoothly" then okay, but its a huge rune, chain stacks and even da uptime waste. You lose 4 gcds before the first chains wich converts into 200-400k damage loss depending on crit.
The whole thing about army "precast" is to have full runes at start + 2pc bonus from begining. With your army usage you also loose 34 sec cd reset on army from 4pc and this could lead to one army usage less, which converts in a 4kk-8kk damage loss.
The biggest problem i see is you start with 0 runes into da (if you dont w8 6-8 seconds! after army usage) which means 80-120 lesser runic power for your da.

The opener is the major key thing from unholy because its the strongest in the game (unless a nasty demonhunter plays with waiste wich is a waste on overall dmg lul).

My opener is as follows:
Army > prepot > outbreak > chains > specter(in meele range) > fs > fs > apo > da > dc > dt > dc > outbreak etc.

[Premove]

My opener is a little bit different but it plays out more smoothly than "default" one.

Prepot > Outbreak > FS FS > Apoc (wounds does not matter on opener, later only if >6) > specter > chains > army > outbreak > DA > coil > DT > coil > coil...

Opening that way does not involve frustrating waiting for wounds and does not waste master of ghouls uptime.

If you feel your opener is "more smoothly" then okay, but its a huge rune, chain stacks and even da uptime waste. You lose 4 gcds before the first chains wich converts into 200-400k damage loss depending on crit.
The whole thing about army "precast" is to have full runes at start + 2pc bonus from begining. With your army usage you also loose 34 sec cd reset on army from 4pc and this could lead to one army usage less, which converts in a 4kk-8kk damage loss.
The biggest problem i see is you start with 0 runes into da (if you dont w8 6-8 seconds! after army usage) which means 80-120 lesser runic power for your da.

The opener is the major key thing from unholy because its the strongest in the game (unless a nasty demonhunter plays with waiste wich is a waste on overall dmg lul).

My opener is as follows:
Army > prepot > outbreak > chains > specter(in meele range) > fs > fs > apo > da > dc > dt > dc > outbreak etc.

[Maxweii]

My opener is a little bit different but it plays out more smoothly than "default" one.

Prepot > Outbreak > FS FS > Apoc (wounds does not matter on opener, later only if >6) > specter > chains > army > outbreak > DA > coil > DT > coil > coil...

Opening that way does not involve frustrating waiting for wounds and does not waste master of ghouls uptime.

If you don't care about how many wounds are on the target on your opener aspic you are wasting master of ghouls and death uptime. You could easily get 4 wounds for Apoc this way and as such that's 6 seconds less on master of ghouls, less death uptime from less ghouls attacking.

Even on the opener, never Apoc under 6 wounds.

[Astrocrunch]

My opener is a little bit different but it plays out more smoothly than "default" one.

Prepot > Outbreak > FS FS > Apoc (wounds does not matter on opener, later only if >6) > specter > chains > army > outbreak > DA > coil > DT > coil > coil...

Opening that way does not involve frustrating waiting for wounds and does not waste master of ghouls uptime.

I have also been opening this way; except I don't have the Chest or Shoulders, or a Spectre. But it feels so much smoother (assuming 6 wounds ofc) than the 7s pre-pull AotD opener.

[ro9ue]

I just find that Unholy has too much shit on opening.

I love the general gameplay of popping wounds and stuff, but I'd gladly trade Army or Garg/Arbiter for a passive option. That's just me personally.

[DigiTeX]

If you don't care about how many wounds are on the target on your opener aspic you are wasting master of ghouls and death uptime. You could easily get 4 wounds for Apoc this way and as such that's 6 seconds less on master of ghouls, less death uptime from less ghouls attacking.

Even on the opener, never Apoc under 6 wounds.

You always lose 5-6 sec of master of ghouls if pre-cast army. But not always you will have 4 wounds (6-4=2 wounds = 6s). That means that statistically you have less penalty.

[Maxweii]

You always lose 5-6 sec of master of ghouls if pre-cast army. But not always you will have 4 wounds (6-4=2 wounds = 6s). That means that statistically you have less penalty.

You don't lose it because as many people have pointed out you're basically auto attacking if you cast it at 0. Using Apoc on less than 6 wounds is a waste. It's entirely easy to get to 6 so there's no real reason to ever not get to it. If you have trouble hitting it with two festering strikes then hold off on Outbreak and use three festering strikes on pull if needed.
So I don't know what you're trying to point out here, but it's not going anywhere.

[Saybel]

You lose 4 gcds before the first chains wich converts into 200-400k damage loss depending on crit.

You're much more likely to get a concordance and fallen crusader proc though, so the loss is mitigated by that, and 70% of the time you gain more then 400k back since FC gain on CoI is much more then 400k - so this loss is mitigated.

The biggest problem i see is you start with 0 runes into da (if you dont w8 6-8 seconds! after army usage) which means 80-120 lesser runic power for your da.

No, I use the opener and I'm always GCD capped during my arbiters, the extra runes I go into DA with would just be overcapped.

[Angeredsoul]

I personally go with Prepot>Outbreak>FS to 6 wounds>Apoc>AOTD>DA>COI>DT>DC SPAM. Might sometimes get less than 6 wounds but I don't let it worry me.

[Premove]

You're much more likely to get a concordance and fallen crusader proc though, so the loss is mitigated by that, and 70% of the time you gain more then 400k back since FC gain on CoI is much more then 400k - so this loss is mitigated.

Well this point is somehow true but also not relient. Since you have to walk into meele range (exept a rogue with massstealth) you lose another 2-3 seconds. Its something you can do while doing nothing but get in meele range.

No, I use the opener and I'm always GCD capped during my arbiters, the extra runes I go into DA with would just be overcapped.

I went through some logs and this is just not true If you use the army precast opener you go with 3-4 runes into DA, dont know how this is an overcap?

[Saybel]

Well this point is somehow true but also not relient. Since you have to walk into meele range (exept a rogue with massstealth) you lose another 2-3 seconds. Its something you can do while doing nothing but get in meele range.

it's a poor mans guild that does mythic without a rogue. you can stand pretty close to almost every boss in the raid either way to the point where you can be ontop of them on the same gcd you cast outbreak

I went through some logs and this is just not true If you use the army precast opener you go with 3-4 runes into DA, dont know how this is an overcap?

4 runes is overcapped

and the point about missing rp inside DA is not valid anyway, you are completely gcd locked inside arbiter whether you army on pull or after apoc, already checked my logs, its completely the case with lust or without, by the time you have finished dumping your RP you have gained most of your runes back from RC procs and at least personally I'm playing belf so I can fill an extra DC anyway.

I accept the point about delayed army, but thats the only concern, so really its about kill times more then anything else. army after apoc is more efficient if you don't get an extra army, if you would get an extra army then army on pull is more efficient.

[Deleted]

I personally go with Prepot>Outbreak>FS to 6 wounds>Apoc>AOTD>DA>COI>DT>DC SPAM. Might sometimes get less than 6 wounds but I don't let it worry me.

Less than 6 wounds is quite a large fps loss.

Sit on pestilence so you have option of third fe

[Derecho]

I personally do the following:

Prepot --> Outbreak --> FS to 6 wounds --> Apoc --> Chains of Ice --> AOTD ---> DA ---> DT ---> Deathcoil

If I open this way, I can usually fit 2 fully loaded Chains of Ice before 15% buff fades.

[Grevmak]

6 sec to pull: Army -> Prepot at 2-1 seconds since our tanks are impatient -> Outbreak -> Chains of Ice if you have the chest -> 2 Festerings -> Apoc -> Valkyrie -> 2 Deathcoils if possible -> Dark Transformation

That's my opener. Using CoF ASAP is, IMO, better than waiting for the undead buff as it's not very RP efficient for the valkyrie - might be wrong, correct me if it is.

Does a shitton of dmg and I had some really good ilvl% parses with it, if I get good RNG I go up to ridiculous amounts of Valkyrie damage. Army infight is used as often as possible, use DT a 2nd time and then wait for Valkyrie to come off CD and use the same routine from 2 festerings - trying to optimize this Valk's damage by having exactly 6 wounds (or more) and then going for lots of Deathcoils is the key to the shoulders.

GL