Canada won't do business with Boeing while it's 'busy trying to sue us,' Trudeau says

[Mittens]

Pretty weird that Trudeau considers Bombardier to be part of the Canadian government, but that's corporate welfare for you.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau dropped the gloves Monday in his fight with Boeing, saying the government won't do business with a company that he's accusing of attacking Canadian industry and trying to put aerospace employees out of work.

Trudeau's broadside represents the strongest Canadian rhetoric yet against the U.S. aerospace giant since Boeing launched a trade dispute with Montreal-based rival Bombardier earlier this year.

It also leaves little doubt that the Liberals are serious about walking away from a controversial plan to purchase 18 so-called "interim" Super Hornet fighter jets from Boeing if the company doesn't stand down.

Indeed, Trudeau also appeared to leave the door open to excluding Super Hornets entirely from any future competition to replace more broadly Canada's aging fleet of CF-18 jets with 88 new planes.

Such a move would be difficult given international trade laws, but if successful, it could represent a major blow to Boeing: the 88 new jets are expected to cost between $15 billion and $19 billion.

The U.S. State Department estimated last week that it would cost Canada more than $6 billion to buy 18 interim Super Hornets.

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"We have obviously been looking at the Super Hornet aircraft from Boeing as a potential significant procurement of our new fighter jets," Trudeau said during a news conference on Parliament Hill.

"But we won't do business with a company that's busy trying to sue us and trying to put our aerospace workers out of business."

Trudeau was appearing alongside British Prime Minister Theresa May, who said Canada and the U.K. would work together to defend Bombardier, which has a factory in Northern Ireland.

Trudeau issues ultimatum to Boeing on Super Hornets0:42

May said she has already made her feelings clear in a phone call with U.S. President Donald Trump, someone Trudeau also said would be hearing from Canada on the matter of Boeing vs. Bombardier.

"I will raise the issue of Bombardier when I meet with him again later this week," said May.

"I will be impressing upon him the importance of Bombardier to the United Kingdom, and particularly, obviously, to jobs in Northern Ireland."

'Narrow economic interests'

Bombardier president Alain Bellemare was one of several Canadian business representatives who later took part in a roundtable with May organized by the British High Commission in Ottawa, but it wasn't clear whether the two had a chance to discuss the matter.

Boeing has accused Bombardier of selling its CSeries passenger jets to a U.S. airline at an unfairly low price with help from government subsidies, and says the case affects its long-term economic health.

The U.S. Commerce Department is currently investigating the complaint, and is expected to release its preliminary findings next week and a finding against Bombardier could result in fines or tariffs.

The federal government and Boeing had been in secret talks to try to find a negotiated settlement, but those discussions broke down in August. Since then, the dispute has escalated publicly and in dramatic fashion.

"We will continue to stand up for jobs and stand up for the excellent airplane that is the Bombardier CSeries aircraft," Trudeau said.

"The action that Boeing has taken is very much in their narrow economic interests, to harm a potential competitor, and quite frankly is not in keeping with the kind of openness to trade that we know benefits citizens in all countries around the world."

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In a statement released Monday, Boeing accused Bombardier of a "classic case of dumping" by offering the CSeries for sale in the U.S. "at absurdly low prices" after it "sold poorly in the marketplace.

"No one is saying Bombardier cannot sell its aircraft anywhere in the world. But sales must be according to globally accepted trade law, not violating those rules seeking to boost flatlining business artificially," the statement said.

"We all have a shared interest in a level playing field. That is what this dispute is about."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boei...-may-1.4295415

[Independent voter]

It's something to distract voters in Canada from all those refugees that cross the border into Canada from the US each day. Something like 6,000 people seeking refugee status.

Huge screw up for Trudeau to brag about how welcoming Canada is to refugees.

[sarahtasher]

Actually, the Americans utterly and completely refusing any kind of fair competition is way more important than a few thousands refugees (including ones from that dangerous salafist bastion known as Haiti)

''Fair'' as in ''getting one set of rules and sticking to it''. It's fracking ridiculous to say that we offer ''unfair'' support to Bombardier when the Canadian governement is not buying for trillions of military aircraft from Bombardier.

It's fracking ridiculous to BOTH try to prevent Bombardier to compete in the US market, cry ''unfair'' when Bombardier win contracts in the markets US compete, and also cry when Bombardier win contracts in markets where the Americans are not even competing(Iran)

[Mittens]

Actually, the Americans utterly and completely refusing any kind of fair competition is way more important than a few thousands refugees (including ones from that dangerous salafist bastion known as Haiti)

''Fair'' as in ''getting one set of rules and sticking to it''. It's fracking ridiculous to say that we offer ''unfair'' support to Bombardier when the Canadian governement is not buying for trillions of military aircraft from Bombardier.

It's fracking ridiculous to BOTH try to prevent Bombardier to compete in the US market, cry ''unfair'' when Bombardier win contracts in the markets US compete, and also cry when Bombardier win contracts in markets where the Americans are not even competing(Iran)

Boeings complaint are not fracking ridiculous. Launch aid is illegal after all and Canadian authorities have admitted to doing it. Now the question remains whether or not this harmed Boeing.
Via reuters:

Quebec Economy Minister Dominique Anglade said in a statement that her government would defend “the commercial partnership concluded with Bombardier” for a $1 billion injection in the CSeries.

[sarahtasher]

Boeings complaint are not fracking ridiculous. Launch aid is illegal after all and Canadian authorities have admitted to doing it. Now the question remains whether or not this harmed Boeing.
Via reuters:

1 billion help is pocket change in the aircraft business.

[Mittens]

1 billion help is pocket change in the aircraft business.

1 billion illegally injected by the Canadian government. Boeing totally has a case and they are right in calling out the corporate welfare in Canada.

[sarahtasher]

The joy of the miltiary industrial complex is that it's often very foggy about what serves to what.

However, the 22 billions in the last decade that DOD/Nasa used to support Boeing R & D in civilian aircraft is certainly a form of support, isn'it ?

[Mittens]

The joy of the miltiary industrial complex is that it's often very foggy about what serves to what.

However, the 22 billions in the last decade that DOD/Nasa used to support Boeing R & D in civilian aircraft is certainly a form of support, isn'it ?

And those transfers are in compliance to wto rules. The ones that the protectionist government of canada did aren't.

[Polyxo]

Canada's generally very protective of their local industries, at least from what I've personally seen, so it doesn't seem like a surprise that this would extend to aerospace.

[sarahtasher]

And those transfers are in compliance to wto rules. The ones that the protectionist government of canada did aren't.

I have startling revelation here, according to our lawyers at the WTO, those subventions are legal. According to Boeing, their ones are too.

Generally speaking, however, the WTO sides with Canada...

[Mittens]

I have startling revelation here, according to our lawyers at the WTO, those subventions are legal. According to Boeing, their ones are too.

Generally speaking, however, the WTO sides with Canada...

Honey.. the WTO literally ruled that most of the subsidies were in compliance with wto rules.

https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-off...laims-alleging

Washington, D.C. – The World Trade Organization (WTO) today issued a compliance panel report rejecting almost all claims by the European Union (EU) that U.S. subsidies to Boeing harmed Airbus’s ability to sell large civil aircraft. The EU challenged 29 U.S. state and federal programs that allegedly conferred $10.4 billion over six years in subsidies to Boeing, but the panel found that 28 of the 29 programs were consistent with WTO rules.

And the US is appealing for that last one. The EU was ruled against for similar programs, so I'm not sure where yoy are getting your info for that last one.

[Rennadrel]

We wouldn't need the Super Hornet fighter jet if Diefenbaker hadn't of shat on Avro Arrow in 1959

[I Push Buttons]

1 billion illegally injected by the Canadian government. Boeing totally has a case and they are right in calling out the corporate welfare in Canada.

Boeing aren't the only ones either. Embraer from Brazil has raised a similar claim and filed a similar suit with the WTO, after Air Canada dropped them for the same reason Delta dropped Boeing... To buy C series jets that the Canadian government is heavily subsidizing.

[Rennadrel]

Canada's generally very protective of their local industries, at least from what I've personally seen, so it doesn't seem like a surprise that this would extend to aerospace.

Bombardier is a shit company though, they have fucked up so many LRT projects in this country over the last decade, as have Metrolinx, who get a lot of projects here in Ontario for some dumb reason. I don't know why our government would defend such an inept company who can't meet the timelines they are given like Bombardier has.

[Omega10]

1 billion illegally injected by the Canadian government. Boeing totally has a case and they are right in calling out the corporate welfare in Canada.

Wow you said this seriously. Boeing gets billionS every year in tax benefits from Washington State, in addition to the tax breaks given by South Carolina and other states where they have offices.

[Mittens]

Wow you said this seriously. Boeing gets billionS every year in tax benefits from Washington State, in addition to the tax breaks given by South Carolina and other states where they have offices.

I refer you to post above:

Honey.. the WTO literally ruled that most of the subsidies were in compliance with wto rules.

https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-off...laims-alleging

Washington, D.C. – The World Trade Organization (WTO) today issued a compliance panel report rejecting almost all claims by the European Union (EU) that U.S. subsidies to Boeing harmed Airbus’s ability to sell large civil aircraft. The EU challenged 29 U.S. state and federal programs that allegedly conferred $10.4 billion over six years in subsidies to Boeing, but the panel found that 28 of the 29 programs were consistent with WTO rules.

And the US is appealing for that last one. The EU was ruled against for similar programs, so I'm not sure where yoy are getting your info for that last one.

[I Push Buttons]

Wow you said this seriously. Boeing gets billionS every year in tax benefits from Washington State, in addition to the tax breaks given by South Carolina and other states where they have offices.

And those subsidies are both legal and nonspecific, simply incentives to remain there and keep employing people there...

The Canadian and Quebec governments have provided billions in subsidies, interest free loans, investments (specifically into the C Series), and outright hold a stake in the company. And Bombadier has taken that free money and drastically undercut the prices of their competition who are aren't recieving billions in free money in this particular market, and dumping the market.

[Tennis]

Boeing should start building the 797 in Canada. That would solve everything.

[sarahtasher]

I overheard that Boeing have a captive market, that keep buying overpriced aircraft at vastly inflated prices.

But surely, that ''does not count''.

[Mittens]

I overheard that Boeing have a captive market, that keep buying overpriced aircraft at vastly inflated prices.

But surely, that ''does not count''.

Yes, it doesn't. The government is free to choose who to contract for its military projects. That is vastly different than directly injecting money to bombardier so it can dump its products.