The official Paladin talent discussion.

[Jathro]

I think my favorite addition to the holy tree is Enlightened Judgments along with Judgments of the Pure. 30 yd Judgments that increase spell haste by 10% for 30 secs? That's amazing. It's far too dangerous and time consuming now for holy pallys to be that close on some encounters, but now our ret pallys will be able to refresh our seals and we get increased haste to boot.

And although not a talent, Avenging Wrath affecting heals will be huge too.

[scandalone]

So many strange speccs...

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000
Seing as alliance is getting seal of bloodish you can prob kill that soc for a free point to put just about where ever you want.

[Samiel]

I just wish they wouldn't have to Nerf Art of War =/

JoCommand + Stun + Art of War = 20-30K crits = Nerf Incoming =/

[Yvert]

I just wish they wouldn't have to Nerf Art of War =/

JoCommand + Stun + Art of War = 20-30K crits = Nerf Incoming =/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cECU4...eadid=2773&p=2

Yes its the real divine storm + The Art of War in it.

[Samiel]

For instance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7QKTUKRRCM

[Knighthonor]

I suggest Blizzard add a Cleanse over time effect to Becon of Light along with the Heal over Time.

[Soulstorm]

I think Art of War will be nerfed. :P

[Samiel]

I think so too, which sucks, because I'm a Ret Paladin, but it's understandable...

And if it's not...

Woot! Finally *we* get to be OP!

[Loveulongtime]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?...00000000000000

??? we got hot after each crit heal ;D
But will this specc work in endgame? ??? ;D

[Utal]

People also didn't notice that repentence is now a 1 min CC?

[Samiel]

Oh! We've noticed

[Knighthonor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cECU4...eadid=2773&p=2

Yes its the real divine storm + The Art of War in it.

It doesnt look that Cool. :-[ :-\

[Zarcob]

I wish Reckoning "worked" too, but its problems aren't limited to scaling. Reckoning has long been discarded by the Tankadin community as a viable MT talent not because of its scaling problems, but because of being the best way to spend 5 points to get bosses to reliably Parry-thrash.

Worrying about parry gibbing on a talent that rarely ever procs to begin with is silly. It's just not worth the points, especially considering one-hand specialization, combat expertise, and argent defender, all already take 5 points.

First, outside Prot, the redefined "Imp SoR" being expanded in function and accessible at the top of the holy tree is a direct buff to Tanks. A 15% boost to the two seals tanks use for threat generation is far from trivial, and synergizes well with the changes in the protection tree.

In protection itself, just looking at the new stuff:

"Touched by the Light" is huge. It's massive. 30% stam to spellpower breaks the Tankadin dependence on spellpower weapons and splitting item budget between actual tank stats and spellpower for threat. The healing buff is trivial, yes, and hardly worth taking for its own right, but the SP from Stam synergizes well with the stam talents in the tree and the damage multipliers now available to make gearing specifically for threat unnecessary. That's the big change we're seeing: we don't have to itemize around multiple mutually exclusive considerations to the degree that we did.

"Shield of the Templar", the revamped "Avenger's Shield", the new "Shield of the Righteous" spell, and "Shield of the Templar" synergize with "TbtL", "SotP", the stam talents, and "Hammer of the Righteous" (it's a weapon strike, no reason to believe it does NOT proc seals) to add up to massive threat generation (While "Guarded by the Light" shaves mana costs) without having to sacrifice Stam and Mitigation/avoidance stats. This isn't bloat: every one of these talents feed into the others, and they all feed into a gear scheme that leaves the Paladin free to stack tank stats to the exclusion of other considerations.

All of these do the same thing: they're single target threat. The tree is wallowing in mediocrity, rehashing the same dulled mechanics ad infinity. The "hits 2 extra targets" bonus of avenger's shield (outside of pulling) and hammer of righteous are pointless, as consecrate is going to operate as the main multi-target threat attack regardless. No change to the 30 second cooldown on avenger's shield only means it gains modestly more usability than where it was previously.

Stam to spell power is not a buff, it's just a transition from old spell power plate to regular tanking plate. There's a slim chance that spamming all these abilities will not just equal the old threat paladins could put out with spell damage, but surpass it, but that optimism is borderline naivety at this point. It's more than likely the threat has been kept in line where it was before: vastly behind druids and warriors for single target threat.

Keep in mind that a weapon still carries the single largest spell damage bonus on it, but hits for virtually nothing. So utilizing a spell damage weapon with Hammer of the Righteous is pointless. It's advantage, is once again, only to create a transition from old spell damage weapons and gear to new single cross-class tanking plate.


Essentially these talents all add up to the ability to equip and act like a warrior. On the very slim chance that they provide insane threat all together, then at least they'll have a singular advantage in what they aim to achieve, but more than likely they'll barely make up for the loss of that 600+ spell power for those that used to stack it.

Perhaps the grade should have been more as a C or C+, as they're basically nothing but average abilities to transition the old spell damage tank to a standard with warriors. There is no spell reflect like warriors got in BC to define the spec in a certain manner, no buffs to the centralized role of paladins - AE tanking - and nothing to compare to the massive buffs druids receive as tanks; no more crushing blows, a 50% melee slow, and a last stand.

Rating the prot changes as anything other than average at this point is silly. The only thing the class might have going for it are the terribly bad nerfs to warrior shield block mechanics, but for the sake of warriors, I've proceeded under the assumption that will only get reverted.

[Romets]

comparison

Flourish B(e)acon of Light
Manacost: 1125 ( without treeform) 2330
Range: 15 yards 10 yards
total Heal: 4410 2000
Duration: 7 sec 15 sec
casttime: instant 1.5 sec
limit of Targets: 5 no limit

Does the targetlimit really justify all the cons ?

(p.s. i play a druid, so this is no whinepost or whatever
p.p.s. english isn't my native language )

These spell would probly be the best for AoE attacks like in Karazhan when heading to moroes or the phase's for nightbane

[Khody]

These spell would probly be the best for AoE attacks like in Karazhan when heading to moroes or the phase's for nightbane

A better example would be to put it on the tank or melée on a fight like Najentus. There it would REALLY shine.

[Khody]

What makes ur post official?

The title, duh.

[Knighthonor]

I really dont think we are the Primary AoE tank anymore.

Death Knight's DnD anybody?

[Khody]

As what's already been stated, DKs tanking strong point will be magic casting mobs.

Maybe they will be able to strongly tank large groups of casters, but a palein will still excel at tanking large groups of melée.

They're going to be stronger boss tanks now also.

[Knighthonor]

As what's already been stated, DKs tanking strong point will be magic casting mobs.

Maybe they will be able to strongly tank large groups of casters, but a palein will still excel at tanking large groups of melée.

They're going to be stronger boss tanks now also.

I dont agree with that. Now that Crushing blows were removed, Blocking is now a lame mechanic. In TBC our only advantage for fighting melee mobs was our high Block Charges from Holy Shield. But now that Blocking is not needed anymore, I see Death Knights taking the crown as the new AoE Tank.

They have more pure Avoidance, and High Armor to reduce the damage of melee hits. Also they to have spamable AoE attacks.

[naypalmacus]

How is blocking not needed? How is see this is with the new strength > bv change from 20str to 2str per bv the amount of which we block any melee attack will increase incredibly, meaning a blocked attack will most likely mean a nearly negated attack, if not negated totally(1 damage lol, if only :P) As they(druid/dk) cant block, they must rely on pure avoidance(dodge/parry), that wont be miles ahead out ours.. to the best of my knowledge at least. Plus, how is concecration going to be beaten for raw aoe threat..

Sure with the absence of crushing blows, druids and soon to be dk in wow will be able to tank significantly better. But, with a very high block value, paladins and warriors have a third method of negating damage not just two. Plus, who wants to have a high parry chance? I personally wouldnt, so really i'd rather rely on 2 methods of negating damage with dodge and block(a lot of bv mind you) rather than just relying on dodge alone.

Paladins forever imo, especially with the new talents focusing on our weakness, single target damage mitigation [Judgement of the Just] and single target threat generation [Seals of the Pure] while still improving our aoe threat and tanking capability with Guarded by the Light and an extra two charges on HS respectively.

At the moment I can't see Dk's taking the AoE tanking crown nor see the fall of tankadins, rather, I see quite the opposite.