[Suggestion] New Paladin trees. Small changes.

[Kaylus]

Was a bit bored waiting for servers to come online and thought I would throw out my ideas and see what people think

http://www.war-tools.com/t59201.html

Holy

New t1 Talent:
Improved Sacred Shield: Reduces the cooldown of the Sacred Shield effect by 1/2 sec.

Swapped Divine Intellect with Spiritual Focus. Also reduced Spiritual Focus to 3 points.

Removed Aura Mastery, now baseline. Added Seal Mastery: Increasing Seal durations by 100%.

Changed Purifying Power: Reduces the mana cost of your Cleanse, Purify and Consecration spells by 5/10% and increases the chance of your Cleanse and Purify spells remove a second effect by 50/100%.

Changed Light's Grace: Buffed duration increased to 30secs.

Changed Infusion of Light: Your Holy Shock critical hits reduce the cast time of your next Holy Light spell by 1/2 secs.

Changed Sacred Cleansing, Now named Sacred Ground: Your Consecration spell has a 10/20/30% chance to increase the target's resistance to Disease, Magic and Poison by 30% for 10 sec per tick.

Changed Judgements of the Pure: Your Judgement spells increase your casting and melee haste by 2/4/6/8/10% for 1 min. In addition your Judgement spells global is reduced by .3/.6/.9/1.2/1.5.

Protection

New 11 point talent.
Improved Hammer of Justice: Your Hammer of Justice also taunts the target to attack you. In addition if your Hammer of Justice is resisted the cooldown is reduced by 50%. (note: old Imp HoJ removed and HoJ cooldown reduced to 40sec base.)

Changed Improved Righteous Fury: While Righteous Fury is active, all damage taken is reduced by 3/6/9% and reduces the chance your Righteous Fury will be dispelled by 33/66/100%.

Moved Redoubt from t8 to replace old Improved Hammer of Justice.

Changed Reckoning: Gives you a 2/4/6/8/10% chance after being hit by any damaging attack that the next 4 weapon swings within 8 sec will deal holy damage.

Changed Ardent Defender: Attacks which reduce you below 35% health cause you to reduced all damage taken by 5/10/15/20/25% for 10 sec. Cannot occur more than once every 30 sec.

Changed Combat Expertise: Increases your expertise, total Stamina by 2/4/6/8/10%.

Changed Avenger's Shield: Hurls a holy shield at the enemy, dealing 846 to 1034 Holy damage, silencing them and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects 3 total targets. Lasts 5 sec.

Retribution

Moved Swift Retribution from t9 to t6.

Removed Improved Retribution Aura

Changed Swift Retribution: Your Retribution Aura also increases casting, ranged and melee attack speeds by 1/2/3% and increases the damage done by your Retribution Aura by 15/30/45%.

Changed Crusader Strike: An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage and refreshes all Blood Corruption/Holy Vengeance stacks on the target.

Remember these are all just idea so don't explode at me if you don't like them but I do like positive feedback. Enjoy

[Clasifyd]

The 'cannot dispel' part of RF is actually not a bad idea, the 9% damage reduction is a little OP. I see this having little benefit in PvE, but a slight benefit in PvP, just not enough for other classes to call foul. I guess I just miss the old dual-utility that RF had, too.

[Kaylus]

The 'cannot dispel' part of RF is actually not a bad idea, the 9% damage reduction is a little OP. I see this having little benefit in PvE, but a slight benefit in PvP, just not enough for other classes to call foul. I guess I just miss the old dual-utility that RF had, too.

aww I didnt think about that I guess I can just drop it back to 6% and move the other 3% back into Shield of the Templar.

[Kawasaki.gdm]

Very nice suggestions:

-Improved ret aura effect now on Swift retribution. (very good, becose nobody will expend 2 talent points in that useless talent)

-Crusader Strike refreshing corruption/vengeance would be a nice add to our overall dps not affecting burst dmg (PVP)

-Reckoning is still a useless talent even with those changes. If was something like:
Gives you a 2/4/6/8/10% chance after being hit by any damaging attack that the next 4 weapon swings within 8 sec will deal double damage as holy damage.
(now that would be a good 5point talent)

-Changed Purifying Power: Reduces the mana cost of your Cleanse, Purify and Consecration spells by 5/10% and increases the chance of your Cleanse and Purify spells remove a second effect by 50/100%. (we really need Cleanse to be better, right now doesnt even worth to press it)

[Kaylus]

Very nice suggestions:

-Improved ret aura effect now on Swift retribution. (very good, becose nobody will expend 2 talent points in that useless talent)

-Crusader Strike refreshing corruption/vengeance would be a nice add to our overall dps not affecting burst dmg (PVP)

-Reckoning is still a useless talent even with those changes. If was something like:
Gives you a 2/4/6/8/10% chance after being hit by any damaging attack that the next 4 weapon swings within 8 sec will deal double damage as holy damage.
(now that would be a good 5point talent)

-Changed Purifying Power:  Reduces the mana cost of your Cleanse, Purify and Consecration spells by 5/10% and increases the chance of your Cleanse and Purify spells remove a second effect by 50/100%. (we really need Cleanse to be better, right now doesnt even worth to press it)

What if Reckoning was changed to:
Reckoning:  Gives you a 2/4/6/8/10% chance after being hit by any damaging attack that the next 4 attacks within 8 sec will be parried. 

Might be a bit too much but it offers a more tank idea while still giving the paladin the  "extra attacks" thanks to parry haste.  It's hard to say what really needs to happen with Reckoning since its a dps talent that doesn't help tps with our current tanking seals and actually hurts us more then benefits us while still being in the protection tree

[Moar Pew Pew]

Hmm, I can't say I like the Prot changes. The rest is ok. I'd give it 65/100. But remember that's a lot better than I'd give Blizz on Holy lol.

If you're curious, here's a link to my brain child. lol

http://www.war-tools.com/t59134.html

[Moar Pew Pew]

Ok, honestly, Parry buffing the boss is a myth. It really shouldn't effect wheher or not you should get it. But, what makes me pass it up every time is that I don't have the points to spare. That's why I like the idea of having it as the 21 point on demand Prot talent, and moving Sanc to the 11 pointer. It's all in my link lol.

I do kind of like the idea of giving Holy extended Seal durations though, but I would make it a 3-5 point talent instead, since it isn't deserving of being an 11 pointer.

[xourico]

Changed Judgements of the Pure: Your Judgement spells increase your casting and melee haste by 2/4/6/8/10% for 1 min. In addition your Judgement spells global is reduced by .3/.6/.9/1.2/1.5.


judgement is not on global cooldown... dont you mean seals?

[Moar Pew Pew]

Judgements are on the GCD in WotLK. This change makes it so Holy wouldn't have to waste a global cooldown while trying to heal when Judging.

[Proudfoot]

One thing that I've been wondering about is the state of the Warrior prot tree vs the Paladin one. I don't mean to say that they should be given the exact same things so that there are no differences. My thoughts mostly have been on the PVP aspect of the trees. Warriors were treated this expansion with a lot of really cool PVP talents that are also semi cool for tanking. Paladins on the other hand don't seem to have gotten anything in this regard... why? I'm not talking about improved hammer of justice or Divine Guardian, I'm talking about something deep in Prot that would make taking a Prot paladin useful in an arena setting. I suppose it's arguable how valuable the Warbringer talent is for prot in PVP and maybe I'm overvaluing it. I just loved the changes that Blizz made to Prot Warriors and was hoping for something similar for Pallys.

I don't even play a Prot Pally but I like to advocate for my fellow Pallys of any spec as they should have done for me.

[Kaylus]

Wow.... the first suggestion that did not include "Interupt"

The interrupt is already built into HoJ and the idea behind Imp HoJ was that we would have a 20sec interrupt/taunt on bosses since they are immune to stun components.

1b) The main reason that blizzard has kept it as a 30/20pvp CD is because it works as a viable interrupt even after diminishing returns. we do not need a new taunt. we have 2. one is an aoe with a 10 sec CD and one is a single-target that does enough holy damage, even nerfed, that it can tear threat off a spamhappy rogue better than a pyroblast with the pom bug.

we have 1 taunt that cant be used to pull a single mob off the MT or used in events like 4horsemen without waiting and possibly misfiring. Either way you look at it we have No AE taunt and no single target taunt, instead we have, in a sense, an intervene that grabs 3 mobs attention.

Just a side note most of the stuff you said about pvp is moot. If you don't like it for pvp don't take it but at the same time don't diss something just cause it doesn't help you in pvp because it most likely helps others in pve. Not every talent has to be both pvp and pve oriented.

[Kaylus]

1: your suggestion for HoJ makes it 30 with pvp gear. bosses are immune, they do not resist, and thus by game mechanics you will never see that effect except on trash.

2:
a) taunt 1: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=53600 ShR. 6-sec CD that causes a significant amount of threat on a whim, as beta tests have displayed...post-'nerf'
b) taunt 2: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=31789 RD. 10-sec CD. aoe (sorta)

and, while i'm at it;
c) Taunt 3: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=48827 AS. 30-sec CD. aoe. at least double the threat output of any other ability available.

If you honest-to-god need HoJ to taunt in addition to these, you should re-evaluate your tanking tact. Paladins, in beta and live, are easily the best threat-producer of the three that aren't bugged (namely, paladin, warrior, DK)

Taunts are taunts

Abilities that do threat or have threat bonuses are not taunts..... plain and simple.

As for the immune vs resist thing that is just a mistake in wording that I didn't catch. Thank you for pointing it out though.

[Thaylor]

So ur saying that all we need to do to pull a mob of the MT that hes been attacking for about 2 mins is hit SotR and wala we have threat ?

[PalliesThrowStuff]

As far as Reckoning goes, the update went in where it now procs on blocked attacks, Ja?

So why the fuss? As long as you have enough expertise, I dont see parrygib being too much of an issue, although it would be nice to see Reckoning turned into a more active ability so you could play with it, rather than just say "oh, that was cool"

If you want PvP viability for Prot specs, you have to give them each something that makes them a desirable target, as is, nobody will bother with you until your entire team is dead.

Reckoning: Any time a group member is struck with a direct damage effect (Instant damage spells, abilities, or melee swings) you have a 2/4/6/8/10% to gain Reckoning, which causes your next weapon swing to generate an additional attack, stacks up to 5 times.

Boom, suddenly the prot Paladin seems like a better target, because his Reckoning swings might wind up actually demolishing you, but the PvE functionality might overpower Prot as a backup tank.

[Ufalah]

1: Always, ALWAYS, talents are gained at or after the level of the spell.

Tier 2 resto shamans have a talent for reincarnation and do not actually get the spell until level 30. Thanks for playing.

[yiptastic]

Was a bit bored waiting for servers to come online and thought I would throw out my ideas and see what people think

http://www.war-tools.com/t59201.html

Holy

Removed Aura Mastery, now baseline. Added Seal Mastery: Increasing Seal durations by 100%.

Changed Light's Grace: Buffed duration increased to 30secs.

sacred cleansing: additional to what it does, your cleanse spell has 30% chance to remove another disease/poison when the target is affected by sacred shield.
(not magic, because most magical DoTs aren't stackable. and you don't want to remove UA by accident. )

haste already reduce GCD.

Protection

Changed Improved Righteous Fury: While Righteous Fury is active, all damage taken is reduced by 3/6/9% and reduces the chance your Righteous Fury will be dispelled by 33/66/100%.


Retribution

remove imp ret aura.

Changed Swift Retribution: Your Retribution Aura also increases casting, ranged and melee attack speeds by 1/2/3% and increases the damage done by your Retribution Aura by 15/30/45%.

Changed Crusader Strike: An instant strike that causes 110% weapon damage and refreshes all Blood Corruption/Holy Vengeance stacks on the target.

I've editted your ideas. Prot is fine in terms of physical mitigation. Blizzard said they will add additional 3% mitigation to all source on shield of the templar, so we should be set. The only problem is spell mitigation.

I want the prot 11 talent to be something more friendly to all 3 specs. probably a spell. I don't know though. I think BLizzard left it out for a good reason, and that's because Blizzard is thinking of something that will benefit all 3 specs but it's protection in nature.

PvE holy needs a reason to go deeper than 5 points in prot. ret PvP might need some spell mitigation and utility when they are out of attack range.

I like the CS idea. it's a solid way to bump our sustain dps, but not increasing our PvP burst.

and if we are to remove imp ret aura, what's gonna be in its place?

also for holy, deep holy is too mundane. they are powerful, but too boring. read the editted sacred cleansing.