Bye Feral -- Hello Balance

[Savantielle]

Oh well, this is just a post about me going balance from feral after 4 years. I never played (or thought I'd play for that matter) Moonkin before, and to my surprise I enjoyed it. What bothered however me was: I have full S4 with exception for weapon and shoulders (which are S2/3) as feral and the highest rating I reached in arena 2v2's were 1995. It gets really competative in some BG's. And my DPS wasn't that high either since all you had to do vs. a kitty is to turn a notch and he can't shred you!

However, loging into the PTR with my S1 restogear and speccing full balance I notice my DPS is alot higher and I can pull off some crazy stuns in PVP.. I can actually do something in the arena! And for all the flamers saying "L2P" etc, I'm good thanks, I know how to play feral =) I am just amazed how feral can be broken after so many years, while I log in with 3 seasons worse gear and start critting 5-6K Starfires on the training dummies? And 4-5K on people with 400 resilience. Shame on you Blizzard. I really loved feral but meh, bigger crits on all kinds of targets now when warlocks has 0 resistance hooraayy! Flame on ^^

[Askan]

more fun as moonkin =x

[Savantielle]

more fun as moonkin =x

It was indeed =] even beat some S3 ret palas with close to no effort compared to feral which felt really nice. Looking forward to my S4 mount now

[Lobbas]

Very nice indeed...

Lazerowl ftw!

[Seraphk]

Oh well, this is just a post about me going balance from feral after 4 years. I never played (or thought I'd play for that matter) Moonkin before, and to my surprise I enjoyed it. What bothered however me was: I have full S4 with exception for weapon and shoulders (which are S2/3) as feral and the highest rating I reached in arena 2v2's were 1995. It gets really competative in some BG's. And my DPS wasn't that high either since all you had to do vs. a kitty is to turn a notch and he can't shred you!

However, loging into the PTR with my S1 restogear and speccing full balance I notice my DPS is alot higher and I can pull off some crazy stuns in PVP.. I can actually do something in the arena! And for all the flamers saying "L2P" etc, I'm good thanks, I know how to play feral =) I am just amazed how feral can be broken after so many years, while I log in with 3 seasons worse gear and start critting 5-6K Starfires on the training dummies? And 4-5K on people with 400 resilience. Shame on you Blizzard. I really loved feral but meh, bigger crits on all kinds of targets now when warlocks has 0 resistance hooraayy! Flame on ^^

We're always behind every expansion. Mangle should have been in vanilla WoW. All the changes in WoTLK should have been in BC. I guess we'll get what we should have had in WoTLK next expansion.

I am in a very similar position as you. However, you'll never get me to play a Moonkin because I can just look at it & realize that it's not my playstyle. And if it was, I'd be on an Elemental Shaman instead so that I'd have around the same armor but no healing restrictions. Thus, Death Knight looks like a good replacement for my Feral Druid at the moment since their design regarding tanking / dps viability is the same -- One just does it with a lot more effectiveness & style -- Don't think I need to say which. ;D

This is in no way a QQ post or rant. It's simply the truth. Ask any long-time Feral how he has felt regarding the changes we get every expansion & you'll hear something very similar. At this point, I almost wish the devs could even try to make us OP without making something ridiculously OP alone (see current Typhoon bug in Beta atm). I don't think they could ever make a Feral Druid OP even if they tried, even at the beginning of BC when I had 3 k Bear Mangles. As soon as people got PvP gear, that damage would have been null.

Oh well, if I do end up sticking with my Feral, it will be because I've been playing one for so very long, and leveled two others to 70. It's a fun class in PvE, and even in BGs they are fun because people are getting attacked by others and/or ignoring you so you can actually kill something... But, everything else and even some aspects regarding PvE/BGs is far below par.

[DrJones]

did you also play feral on the ptr? or just moonkin?
my druid is only a twink but i think feral in regards to pvp gets awesome new stuff and with a slow you get behind peoples back far easier (when i compare my rogue mutilitate specced to my druid i think i know how it works somehow) and you are not penalized by lag AS hard as without a slow
so i dunno, only thing that sucks is that with 70 you cant get Omen of clarity and berserk so you can't really see if and what you can burst down... except from that people in the beta seem not to got for berserk ;/

but i agree moonkin can be fun, most of the time against melees imo, but i only know from live so meh

[Savantielle]

did you also play feral on the ptr? or just moonkin?
my druid is only a twink but i think feral in regards to pvp gets awesome new stuff and with a slow you get behind peoples back far easier (when i compare my rogue mutilitate specced to my druid i think i know how it works somehow) and you are not penalized by lag AS hard as without a slow
so i dunno, only thing that sucks is that with 70 you cant get Omen of clarity and berserk so you can't really see if and what you can burst down... except from that people in the beta seem not to got for berserk ;/

but i agree moonkin can be fun, most of the time against melees imo, but i only know from live so meh

Yes, I spent about 3-4 days playing arenas and BG's with my real 2v2 rogue partner.. Got assfisted by every ret pala we met, kinda boring. The slowing is dispellable by shamans/priests but it's nice I guess, nothing gamebreaking tho. Berserking was still too weak, ate a 10 sec blind or KS or whatever as soon as I popped it and didn't have trinket. I played moonkin for about 1 day, and it already feels so much funnier and more viable to play. Berserk won't give as much either on plate since spelldmg does about equal no matter what kind of armor they have =)

[Savantielle]

We're always behind every expansion. Mangle should have been in vanilla WoW. All the changes in WoTLK should have been in BC. I guess we'll get what we should have had in WoTLK next expansion.

I am in a very similar position as you. However, you'll never get me to play a Moonkin because I can just look at it & realize that it's not my playstyle. And if it was, I'd be on an Elemental Shaman instead so that I'd have around the same armor but no healing restrictions. Thus, Death Knight looks like a good replacement for my Feral Druid at the moment since their design regarding tanking / dps viability is the same -- One just does it with a lot more effectiveness & style -- Don't think I need to say which. ;D

This is in no way a QQ post or rant. It's simply the truth. Ask any long-time Feral how he has felt regarding the changes we get every expansion & you'll hear something very similar. At this point, I almost wish the devs could even try to make us OP without making something ridiculously OP alone (see current Typhoon bug in Beta atm). I don't think they could ever make a Feral Druid OP even if they tried, even at the beginning of BC when I had 3 k Bear Mangles. As soon as people got PvP gear, that damage would have been null.

Oh well, if I do end up sticking with my Feral, it will be because I've been playing one for so very long, and leveled two others to 70. It's a fun class in PvE, and even in BGs they are fun because people are getting attacked by others and/or ignoring you so you can actually kill something... But, everything else and even some aspects regarding PvE/BGs is far below par.

Couldn't agree more. I enjoyed feral PVE (Only raided until BT) as long as I played it, but it was never really ever viable for arenas. People can' say "I've seen 2,2K+ rated feral druids in 2v2's" but they dont play on Cyclone do they? So it's not really that much of an achievement. This is purely about PVP this post, not PVE or anything. I've got myself a shaman aswell (S1-3 gladiator with all speccs, currently enhancement) and I still think a moonkin brings alot more to the table in the smaller brackets. But it's only my 2c =)

[DrJones]

hmm doesn't sound very promising then, but i might as well wait till 80 and see how it works out for me.... just no more healing in arenas :X seems like my druid either has to become my main or will be there for occasional bg fun (if feral really does suck)

but druids rerolling moonkin does have a good side-effekt ... well maybe it turns out to be bad but:
no rogue (or any other class for that reason) can resist on killing the moonkin first
"omg moonkin KILL IT" allways fun since 90% of the moonkin population isn't any good except from spamming starfire and wrath when not focussed

[Savantielle]

hmm doesn't sound very promising then, but i might as well wait till 80 and see how it works out for me.... just no more healing in arenas :X seems like my druid either has to become my main or will be there for occasional bg fun (if feral really does suck)

but druids rerolling moonkin does have a good side-effekt ... well maybe it turns out to be bad but:
no rogue (or any other class for that reason) can resist on killing the moonkin first
"omg moonkin KILL IT" allways fun since 90% of the moonkin population isn't any good except from spamming starfire and wrath when not focussed

Well ferals always were, are, and probably will be fun to play in BG's - Just not the arenas at a higher (2,2K+) rating. And for the targeting "issue", you never really open in moonkin if you play in a better team because it makes them think you're resto, and when they least expect it you unleash hell upon them :]

EDIT: And no, not trying to be all 1337 pvperzo0er, just saying most teams do that. Lot of the teams never even go moonkin form unless they have a melee on them for that matter =]

[Savantielle]

Just a small sidenote; Just duelled a S3 restoshaman with earthshield (And he got 1 grounding up) and almost completely stunlocked him to death and finished with a nice 4700 Starfire crit. He had 459 resilience ^^ Long live the boomkings

[Walkerz]

hmm doesn't sound very promising then, but i might as well wait till 80 and see how it works out for me.... just no more healing in arenas :X seems like my druid either has to become my main or will be there for occasional bg fun (if feral really does suck)

but druids rerolling moonkin does have a good side-effekt ... well maybe it turns out to be bad but:
no rogue (or any other class for that reason) can resist on killing the moonkin first
"omg moonkin KILL IT" allways fun since 90% of the moonkin population isn't any good except from spamming starfire and wrath when not focussed

I have played moonkin for 2-3 years now and its tru what u saiy about picking moonkins as target.

Altho with 450res and shitload of armor they never get me down fast but now with Typhoon i can just blow em all away !! ;D

[Savantielle]

I have played moonkin for 2-3 years now and its tru what u saiy about picking moonkins as target.

Altho with 450res and shitload of armor they never get me down fast but now with Typhoon i can just blow em all away !! ;D

Hooray \o/ I do wonder though if the knockback delay of 1-2 seconds is intended as the Typhoon hits them quite instant

[Seraphk]

did you also play feral on the ptr? or just moonkin?
my druid is only a twink but i think feral in regards to pvp gets awesome new stuff and with a slow you get behind peoples back far easier (when i compare my rogue mutilitate specced to my druid i think i know how it works somehow) and you are not penalized by lag AS hard as without a slow
so i dunno, only thing that sucks is that with 70 you cant get Omen of clarity and berserk so you can't really see if and what you can burst down... except from that people in the beta seem not to got for berserk ;/

but i agree moonkin can be fun, most of the time against melees imo, but i only know from live so meh

I play Feral. Both on PTR and WoTLK Beta.

The tools we did get are awesome, yes. But they're something we should have had for BC while WoTLK should have further built upon them because they still aren't enough to make us viable in Arenas. Just like Savantielle posted, you get murdered by most other things. Many of the healers have always improved in the effectiveness of their healing -- It's harder to take down healers than it was in BC. Finally, something that I absolutely hate is that Frost Mages just steam roll over me like everyone else now... I'm used to never losing against Mages.

Finally, Berserk and you're going to eat a CC. At least we can now shift and keep it, that at least prevents people from simply snaring then running away. But, other than that, it's rather subpar for PvP since the CC immunity nerf. On the PTR, people chose Omen of Clarity over Berserk simply because it's better overall for both PvE and PvP. In PvE, it will grant you about 110 - 120 energy saved in attacks... Omen of Clarity can proc 3 times and give you greater or equal energy conservation. In PvP, same thing.. Not to mention procs on heals and other things help dramatically in mana preservation. So yes... Every intelligent Feral is going to pick up Omen of Clarity before Berserk at Level 70. Of course, as soon as you hit Level 71, then you'll be able to pick up Berserk so you're just going a whole level without it anyway.


EDIT: @ Savantielle:

Yeah, 2.2 k rated Arena Ferals play with Rogues and/or Resto Druids or Disc Priest. Rogues have everything that a Feral Druid would require to be viable -- Control through Snares/Stuns, CC with Sap and on-demand CC with Blind, healing reduction from poisons. Basically partnering with a Rogue makes it where you're combined team makes the perfect killing class. However, your Rogue partner with his unique abilities are pretty much the reasoning behind why you win. I hate feeling carried. I'm friends with a guy that got Gladiator title in S3 on his Rogue & is going for Gladiator on his Resto Druid for S4 -- I bet we could get to 2200 with a little bit of work, but I'd feel like he is carrying me on either toon.

As for Shaman, the Moonkin can bring a lot more since he has a little bit more control through Roots / Cyclone. I prefer mobility in all PvP situations (except when Pally just takes it away from you), so with Instant Cast Ghost Wolf & Travel Form being the same in terms of movement speed -- It comes down to how well I can keep others immobile & instant casts so I can remain mobile. That's where the two differ a bit. But, I really like a few things about Shamans such as: interrupts, Earthbind totems even keeping Druids snared if they try to unshift, Hex being a CC that doesn't break on damage, and Thunderstorm getting its 20 yard pushback -- back is awesome. Finally, the real thing I admire about the Shaman in PvP is the 30% reduced damage while Feared, Silenced, Stunned. It is simply amazing. If Moonkin had a similar talent I'd likely have to contemplate which class I prefer a little bit more since Moonkin can be quite a bit of fun in PvP.

[kriS411]

I know how to play feral =) I am just amazed how feral can be broken after so many years...

This definitely show how you know to play feral...
Go reroll another class that is more casual friendly and stop insulting other ferals that actually really know how to play their class...

[Savantielle]

This definitely show how you know to play feral...
Go reroll another class that is more casual friendly and stop insulting other ferals that actually really know how to play their class...

"And for all the flamers saying "L2P" etc, I'm good thanks," Take the whole quote next time, and gtfo my thread. It has nothing to do with knowing how to play feral. Feral is a broken arena class and it's not a viable setup in competative play. Ever seen a feral team make it to the playoffs in a tournament? No? Wonder why.. Geez.

And second; It's broken in the arena as it is now compared to other classes/speccs. It works fine in PVE and random BG fun. And 1995 2v2 requires a bit more than being a "casual friendly" class you numbnut.

[Koumaru]

This definitely show how you know to play feral...
Go reroll another class that is more casual friendly and stop insulting other ferals that actually really know how to play their class...

Yes, because a 1995 rating and full S4 is really horrible for feral. Feral is so OP in arena, ya know?

So "stop insulting ... ferals that actually really know how to play their class." I left the word "other" out of this quote because the druid class is not available to the Troll race, so I doubt you even have a druid.

[DiscoMoonkin]

to the op

stay feral

moonkins need a nerf protection

[Savantielle]

to the op

stay feral

moonkins need a nerf protection

Just went restokin on live with S1 gear and reached 2K in notime. I'll go full moonkin when 3.0.2 hits

[Urukubar]

My main is a moonkin and ive been balance from the start of burning crusade. I went all 4 seasons being moonkin reaching hi 1900s with rogues now im at 2k with my warlock buddy thank god for fel armor. Us moonkins always needed a change and now that we get a semi good 51 talent point everyone is planning on switching over.
I just hope the new crowd of moonkins dont give us a bad rep or complain and cause dramatic changes. Please if your feral and get mad if you cant shred someone try being the only casting class w/o a silence. Best thing we can do is cyclone and time our starfires right.

Just dont go moonkin at a weak attempt for trying to make up for your lack of ability to pounce around or travel form into a pillar and heal your face rollin 2s warrior.