Holy Pally raid help

[revcr]

I have built a holy build but im missin some points. Theres many talents that are good for pvp and apply very little or not at all in pve. Take a look at my build and comment about it, only experienced ppl.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=000000000000

I was thinkin maybe gettin to Conviction. So then i came up with this one, no kings.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=000000000000

[Sartecho]

The build that you suggested is fairly close to what I run with when I heal in raids. You did put one point into Kings. Forget that, either max it out or don't bother IMO. I typically don't carry it because I run with another paladin who always has it. I toss Wisdom, he tosses Kings. You also put 2/2 into Might. I don't bother with that because we always have a ret pallie. If you don't, then those points are okay. If you do, don't bother, make the retadin do the might.

If you take the one point out of Kings and the two out of Might, you might want to put them into 3/3 Sanctified Seals for an extra 3% crit.

[Deleted]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=111900060400

That's the specc I raid with. BoL, BoK and Conviction, All in one !
Aura Mastery aint That important tbh. And Improved BoW ? I would go for BoK since it's only Holy Pallies that should specc into that. Let Rets buff BoW.

[Nybras]

Couple of cookie cutter builds

51/5/15 - has kings if you don't already have a kings bitch. Only missing 3% crit from ret
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=111908060403

51/0/18 - Pure Crit build
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=111908060403

Those are the 2 acceptable holy builds with glyphs

[Marudas]

Why leave Sanctified Seals alone and throw 3% crit chance away? Here is what i would go for. http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=111900060400

Close, but not getting Enlightened Judgments essentially makes Judgments of the pure pointless.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=111908060403

This is the pure crit build. If you have another paladin doing Blessing of Kings, this is how you should spec. If not, then you need to take 3 points out of Sanct seals and 2 points out of your holy tree (Likely from Imp Wisdom) and place them into BoK.

[monalin]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=111900060400

That's the specc I raid with. BoL, BoK and Conviction, All in one !
Aura Mastery aint That important tbh. And Improved BoW ? I would go for BoK since it's only Holy Pallies that should specc into that. Let Rets buff BoW.

Why on earth would you make a ret get wisdom, and you take Might? that doesnt make any sense. Most ret pallys will not go that deep into holy to get wisdom. Wisdom is 17 pts in holy what kind of ret pally is gonna do that? Might is only 7 points so its understandable i suppose.

[Firecrest]

The bottom line is that you want to go 51/5/15.

Pretty much every Holy Pally should pick up Kings - regardless of usual raid comp. Even if there's a Pally in your raid that already has it, you will want it for when you're in 5 and 10 mans without him. If you don't do any 10-mans or 5-mans ever then it is okay to skip Kings in favor of the 3% extra crit in Ret (and 2 additional points in Holy).

You have 4 points to play with within the Holy tree. Everything else is a must. Imp Concentration, Imp LoH, Imp Aura Mastery and Imp BoW are the four abilities you have to choose from. You can use your 4 points really any way you choose here. Though it would obviously be a good idea to make sure one of the Pallies you raid with has BoW.

Might is only 7 points so its understandable i suppose.

Holy Pallies get Imp BoM because it's on the way to the crit bonuses we want. It doesn't really have anything to do with how high it is in the Ret Tree. But yeah, Ret picking up Imp BoW is just stupid.

[Wraith]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...an&n=Wraithess

53/0/18

Forget kings, the extra crit you can get is more benefit. i have never had a raid complain that i didn't spec into kings. Pretty much only prot is spec'ing it now....or leave it to ret as they have points to spare.

I have raid healed upto Ob Sanc with this current build and have not found a single issue with it.

[Kadas]

I would go for BoK since it's only Holy Pallies that should specc into that.

I sort of laughed and cried at that statement. Speaking purely from a 25-man raid perspective, there is no reason for a holy paladin to take kings unless your raid is somehow missing a ret paladin. For you to take kings, you would need to give up our most important stat: crit. That means you're intentionally lowering the amount that you heal, the amount of mana regen you get through illumination, and the number of infusion of light pocs. This is not a good idea.

As far as talent economics, holy gives up crit, prot would lose either mitigation or threat which is simply not an option, or ret would lose... pvp talents?

The only time i could see holy taking kings is if your raid is stacked with holy pallies and you have decided to "take one for the team", going holy/prot for divine Guardian and Improved Devo. Hats off to you for your selflessness, but itemize for crit as much as you can and don't expect to put up competitive numbers.

I see 51/5/15 all the time and it's perfectly viable - I would much rather a responsible and intelligent ret pally take up kings though. Two holy paladins can spec this and this to cover Improved Might, Wisdom, and Concentration Aura without sacrificing any performance talents. A raiding ret paladin doesn't need to pick up imp might (since the holy guys get it on the way to their crit) and seal of Command since Martyr/Blood puts up better numbers. That still leaves them with points to play with even after investing 5 into kings.

ps - this is my personal opinion and many disagree, but if your raid is missing a ret pally, there's a problem. They bring too much utility and (gasp) dps not to bring along. Kings only helps this argument.

[belfpala]

51/0/18 - Pure Crit build
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=111908060403

The last two points obviously go in PoJ.

[Firecrest]

Forget kings, the extra crit you can get is more benefit.

You're seriously trying to propose that 3% extra crit to yourself is worth more than a 10% buff to the stats of the entire raid?

Okaaaay.....

Speaking purely from a 25-man raid perspective...

The problem is that there is hardy ever a "purely 25 man raid perspective". Especially in Wrath - an expansion which is so heavily pushing the 10 man raid. If you are actually in a position where you only ever group with another Pally who has Kings, then sure you can pass. But with all the Heroics and Normal Mode Naxx, Sarth and Malygos to be done, I suspect that such a situation is probably pretty rare.

It is pretty frequent for there to be just one Pally in any given 10 Man or Heroic. And in that instance, you're going have to tell your raid, "Sorry, I passed on a 10% buff to all of you in favor of a 3% buff to myself."

[Princi]

ps - this is my personal opinion and many disagree, but if your raid is missing a ret pally, there's a problem. They bring too much utility and (gasp) dps not to bring along. Kings only helps this argument.

Agreed.

BoSanc from Prot
BoK from Ret
BoM from Holy
BoW from Holy

I wouldn't build a spec around 5 man, but I may take BoK if I only ever did 10 man raiding.

[Deleted]

I sort of laughed and cried at that statement. Speaking purely from a 25-man raid perspective, there is no reason for a holy paladin to take kings unless your raid is somehow missing a ret paladin. For you to take kings, you would need to give up our most important stat: crit. That means you're intentionally lowering the amount that you heal, the amount of mana regen you get through illumination, and the number of infusion of light pocs. This is not a good idea.

I'm not speaking of a Purely 25-man raid perspective. And no, we dont have a ret Pally in our 10 man raid setup. Would I then rather take 3% crit, so I heal better. Or would I instead take 10% Stats for Everyone in the raid ? Hard decision.

[Wraith]

there is pretty much ALWAYS a ret pali in a raid for mana regen and dps. Most good ret will have kings.

So yes don't take it..take 3% more crit.