So what dps spec is doing well now?

[valgas]

Thank you everyone for the feedback.

[Dojf]

I'm surprised with some people that they can have a 70% chance to crit with fireball, and at the same time, get 446 hit(taken from WoWwiki).

Yea, I'm pretty surprised aswell, I play alliance so I get the extra 1% hit from draenei. I only need 342 hit rating to get 17% raidbuffed and still I can't get over 65% crit but then again I haven't socketed any crit more than 2x 9 sp 8 crit rating all other's are spellpower.

[moongleam]

Truths

On the average case, Arcane (57/3/11 or 51/3/17) Fireball spec and (i.e. 21/50 or 18/53) have comparable dps, close enough that gear, playstyle, raid buffs, encounter, and skill will make far more difference to your dps with the two specs than the actual theoretical numbers.

Suggestions
If you like the Arcane playstyle then I suggest you stick with it, as PvE damage really wasn't hurt that bad in the nerf (2-3%), and its AoE is better than Fireball spec. You have to make sure you manage your rotations to match your mana support but you basically need to hold a ~20k mana deficit over 2 minutes and you're infinitely sustainable. For AoE remember all the blizzard buffs you get with this spec (208% Blizzard crits, 3% crit, 3% dmg, 6% haste, clearcasting/potency, PoM+AP up regularly to use with Flamestrike and Blizzard)

If you don't like the Arcane playstyle, then Fireball has comparable dps (higher in some fights, lower in others), but you'll need to make sure you have enough mana support from the raid to keep it sustainable at your haste rating and fight lengths. Running out of mana with Evoc on cooldown can kill your dps. Definitely a good choice if you need to put up the debuff. and has the typical Frostfire playstyle matched almost exactly with the following differences:
1) more mana hungry
2) higher hit cap (3% higher, so another ~79 hit rating needed than Frostfire)
3) higher crit rate, at least 6% higher with Focus Magic and Glyph of Fireball
4) less RNG dependance due to higher on-paper crit rate, higher hit damage, and lower crit multiplier
5) lower fireball damage on untanked (no TTW debuff) mobs
6) No frost or arcane tree points to boost Blizzard AoE

Frostfire is a decent choice due to its low mana dependency and relatively high average dps with strong AoE. If you dont' have solid mana support from your raid FFB is the go-to alternative to Fireball and Arcane specs.

Frost still sucks. =/

Very well stated. Dont see enough of that (especially so far in this thread .

-Moon

[Zelimagi]

Playstyle does play the most important part in damage dealing.

I personally don't like arcane because of the messy rotations, and it's not very exciting until heroism. I prefer playing old school fire now because I like to burn things. I'm a bit of a pyromaniac. I even chose my professions to be Goblin Engineering and Spellfire Tailoring, highly fire based professions.

For some reason when I cast a fireball, I can accurately cast them one after another from just hearing the sound it makes. Where as arcane, I'm a mess as I have to watch my casting bar, "do x when y happens, and then do z after" along with "cast x an amount of times on y boss to conserve mana." There's just so much going on when I go arcane, that to me it's just too much stress on a fight where there's already alot of stress from dodging, moving, and everything in between.

Basically, I would have to say go the either fire or arcane depending on how you like to play. If you like frostfire, or you don't have the gear to support either fire or arcane, play that too. Frost on the other hand, it's not as good as the other specs yet, but the playstyle is the same as fire or frostfire.

Data is nice and does help determine the standings of each of the specs, but it lacks the personality of someone playing each of the specs and telling the player which of the specs that he or she will do much better with.

[HellBurn]

wow has arcane really been nerfed so much that it's third now ?

I'm specced arcane and doing quite well on my dps meter.

[misch]

1 post up yuou have your answer.

446 hit needed to be capped

and there is no excuse for any mage not to get hit capped. ever.

That is an ignorant post. Any 25man will have FF or Misery on the boss, Alliance have the Dranaie racial (which, btw, is only party-wide, not raid wide, so do not clump you space goats in the same group while raiding), and there are talents available which affect your hit rating.

Heroic dungeon mobs cap at level 82, requiring 6% (158 hit rating) to cap, before talents/racial/debuffs.

Furthermore, the relative values of SP/Crit/Hit change as each particular rating changes (ie, the less crit rating you have, the more weighted crit will be with +hit). To say everything must be sacrificed to reach the hit cap simply is not sound theorycrafting and you can see for yourself by using RAWR or other TC simulators. Really the only encounter that absolutely required reaching the hit cap was spellsteal/counterspell duty on Illidari Council.

[Xevec]

The only thing that really bothers me is if fireball spec is actually the most powerful spec, I am not seeing many mages today going to it. Also, do not rely on misery or faerie fire. I've done 25 man's without a boomkin or shadow priest. You can get replenishment from other sources(survival hunters or ret palys). There is also the fact that if one of them dies. Then what?

Also, people aren't saying things should be sacrificed to achieve hit. It's that hit cap must be capped first. Your spellpower can be good and all, but if you keep missing, then it's pointless.

But under fireball spec, the mage has no talents that they get to affect hit rating.

But I do believe playstyle is very important in determining someone's spec. Theorycrafting isn't everything. There are certain fights where one particular spec does better than another. In a fight that requires a ton of burst, fireball and FFB spec will not do as well as arcane. In a fight like Loatheb, I believe arcane will suffer against fireball and FFB.

[Dammagia]

1 post up yuou have your answer.

446 hit needed to be capped

and there is no excuse for any mage not to get hit capped. ever.

17% is the hit required, -3% from Precision, -3% from Misery or Moon and Earth -1% if you are Alliance and have a draenei.

Basically anyone who specs for 446 hit is insane, trying to solo Naxx, or their raid leader needs to seriously look at his raid composition.

In other words, you should be speccing for 287 if Horde or 263 if Alliance for a pukka 25 man raid. A good player will keep older gear specced to give them the extra hit should they be lacking a SP or Boomkin in a 10 man.

Hit is the most valuable stat to cap first, as 1% chance can translate to 2-3% lower DPS for a given bossfight.

However, with 40 hit food or SP/Crit/Haste food you can afford some level of juggling with your stats.

[DeiVias]

341 hit if alliance as fireball spec

341 hit is 13%, 3% from spriest, 1% from draenei = never miss

Horde have to get another 1%.

Done

[jenocide]

may i ask if this : http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage=230503001230333005312030035120330303120300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00&glyph=000000000000"]Click Here[/url] is still viable as a spec for both raiding and heroics? its a FFB spec, just with dragon breath and blast wave

[HellBurn]

ATM 20/51/0 is considered the top dps spec for mages. (Fireball)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

Followed by 0/51/20 (FFB)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

Then (Arcane)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

And finally (Frostbolt)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

Latley though, like I posted in a different thread, I've been messing around with a strange spec. My spell power atm is still a little low for this spec to really shine (im at 1750 and prob need to be at atleast 2k), but I feel once I'm at/over the 2k mark I'm really going to enjoy this spec
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=000000000000

ATM my frostbolt cast time is 1.75 secs so BrainFreeze procs a ton. Getting TtW for both my frostbolt and fireball plus getting ignite on my fireball crits has proven to be quite amazing. With this spec I tip just over 4k dps on boss fights which I honeslty didn't think was gonna happen. I really feel that once blizz fixes raid dps for frost mages like they have been implying they are then I truly think this spec is going to be extremely fun to play.

Could we get the numbers for this ?

[kkthx]

There are no numbers for those : )

18/53/o and 57/3/11 are still the best choices (like they were before). FFB is still significantly lower. Frost is still non existing.

[zerorage]

dont really like the 18/53/o, have to put in too much hit gear to work.

now 57/3/11 is leet cos you get tons of hit from talents, 6% meaning you can get crit and haste off the otherwise hit gear

[rathok]

Any slows or snares, and thunderclap slows attack speed so...yeah.

Hmmm... you sure? Because frost fever also reduces attack speed and I've read that it doesnt work. Anyone know for sure?

[Hugsforpeace]

I've been playing the 20/51/0 spec for the last few weeks, but mainly because I was the scorch bitch in the raid, the only difference between mine and the 2nd posters is I took magic absorption. Now one of the other two main raid mages also went fire and he sits normally 3rd or 4th on the dps meters are the end of fights, the arcane mage sits at 1st or 2nd and I'm usually 7th or 8th but they our gear me a bit still.

[davesurfer]

But of course, it's very possible that you ALWAYS raid with a boomkin and shadow priest, which provide 6% hit(does imp faerie fire and misery stack?)

Does not stack