Protection: How much HIT do I need?

[Quest]

Again, incorrect. Never bother enchanting, gemming, or considering an item an upgrade because of increased hit.

Even during you hypothetical giant miss streak, consecrate was still ticking, SoV was still ticking, HS was still reflecting damage.

And DPS will not be missing. I think that's the point, but some people are considering wrong methods about it. Even with missing though, stacking str is best if you want more threat. But +hit is in second place, its there especially because you're stacking strength, so dont disregard it, weight it against a peice of threat gear and the strength differences. If enough hit is on the gear, it might make up for the difference in str, and provide more threat overall.

To have such a narrow simple minded view will make content harder for you and your raid than it should be. Ignorance is not your friend.

FAIL!

I have MT'd everything except Sarth3d, (we just got 2D down Monday) and I have zero, let me say again, ZERO + hit gems and I am no where near cap. You do not need to gear for hit as you will be sacraficing avoidance to get it.

Offhand had prolly the best arguement here. You dont need to stack hit. What you get from your gear upgrades is fine.

Also... to the poster who had the 3 +8 hit and +12 stam gems, lol

No you shouldn't be sacrificing avoidance for +hit.

However if you are in need of threat (we will find that moreso with the new content as DPS starts out-scaling us), and your being kept up just fine, replacing stam gems for strength gems is going to be the best way to go about keeping aggro on closer fights. BV will somewhat offset the sacrificed HP, and strength will give you the best boost per itempoint for threat.

[Offhand]

To have such a narrow simple minded view will make content harder for you and your raid than it should be. Ignorance is not your friend.

I might have to turn the tables on you for this one. Hit capping and expertise stacking used to be hard and fast rules for TBC, times have changed. Look no further then the ret tree, where strength is stacked with reckless abandon in regards to hit. Hit capping isn't the most important thing you can do for every class all the time. The notion that hit is a necessary stat is outdated.

Strength increases TPS, Stamina increases TPS, block value increases TPS. All of these things should be taken over hit. As our gear level increases, these three stats will increase as well. Your TPS will rise, as will your guild's dps.

[Quest]

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...at+TPS#p383212

The weightings were calculated the same way as the plots on page 2 of this thread, with ~1250 Character Sheet STR (about what I have), a 5/60/6 spec, and the usual 969 rotation. The relevant stats are:
STR gives 1.08 DPS and 2.80 TPS per point
AGI gives 0.33 DPS and 0.83 TPS per point
Hit gives 0.68 DPS and 1.75 TPS per point (rating)
Crit gives 0.34 DPS and 0.85 TPS per point (rating)
AP gives 0.32 DPS and 0.81 TPS per point (rating)

Meaning later on if youre sweet on blockcap, cool on health, healers having no issue keeping you up, but DPS is stating to slowly catch up, you're going to want to save this piece of information on future gear decisions.

Just like Kara, all Nax was, was for us all to get to 102.4%. Now that we are, what do you think is going to happen?

Blizzard is going to make encounters harder for tank and threat. You are not a unique snowflake that beat the system and no one knows how awesome you are when it comes to how far ahead in threat you are. Sorry. It was programmed that way. So don't be shocked when you start to have to work for it a bit more in 3.1

[Quest]

I might have to turn the tables on you for this one. Hit capping and expertise stacking used to be hard and fast rules for TBC, times have changed. Look no further then the ret tree, where strength is stacked with reckless abandon in regards to hit. Hit capping isn't the most important thing you can do for every class all the time. The notion that hit is a necessary stat is outdated.

Strength increases TPS, Stamina increases TPS, block value increases TPS. All of these things should be taken over hit. As our gear level increases, these three stats will increase as well. Your TPS will rise, as will your guild's dps.

You really didn't say anything here. Also, I never said anything about staking hit=good.

You're either trolling or slow...


For people that are actually interested in more than taking a random trolls word for it, this has been heavily modeled in several threads with pretty charts even Offhand can read. Several common taking specs have been modeled as well as combinations of both glyphs and rotations. The rotations are mostly variations on the standard 969, so its recognizable territory for most of you.

Have fun learning!

http://www.failsafedesign.com/mainta...hp?f=6&t=20823

[Offhand]

I think the bit were you imply no hit = threat problems is where you go terribly terribly wrong.

Really, I would love for my locks and mages to start pulling 10k dps, but it won't be happening in Ulduar.

[Quest]

I think the bit were you imply no hit = threat problems is where you go terribly terribly wrong.

Really, I would love for my locks and mages to start pulling 10k dps, but it won't be happening in Ulduar.

I said if you have threat issues, and most likely will more in the new content; Str>hit>BV. That wont change no matter how much you stamp your foot.

The silly thing is, youre sitting there going on and on about it, while im backing it up with verifiable proof. Click the link and learn yourself something new.

[Offhand]

Thank you for sending me to a forum I regularly participate and contribute to.

Thank you for telling me str>hit>BV which I had already stated.

Thank you for entirely failing at reading comprehension.

I can see we have another fine contributor to the paladin forums.

[Quest]

Thank you for telling me str>hit>BV which I had already stated.

Strength increases TPS, Stamina increases TPS, block value increases TPS. All of these things should be taken over hit.

Troll is trolling.

[Offhand]

You seriously have considered having threat problem in Ulduar? Haven't you?

Str, BV, and stam are better then hit. Simply because they do more then generate threat. Taking things out of context doesn't change this.

[Quest]

Str, BV, and stam are better then hit. Simply because they do more then generate threat. Taking things out of context doesn't change this.

Meaning later on if youre sweet on blockcap, cool on health, healers having no issue keeping you up, but DPS is stating to slowly catch up, you're going to want to save this piece of information on future gear decisions.

Str>Hit>BV

I hope the bold makes it easier for you to read this time. ;D

[Offhand]

Yes, but, they aren't. 8k TPS in on the low end now and even then the top dps in the world won't be able to keep up outside of gimmick fights. This won't change in Ulduar.

Survivability takes precedence over threat every time.

[Quest]

Yes, but, they aren't.

Meaning later on if

I know reading is difficult for you, but focus.

If you need help you can find some here; http://www.hookedonphonics.com/

[Evereghalo]

I have a 5% hit rating from the gear that I just happen to pick up.

that is more than enough.

Think of it like this:

SoV - Constant ticks of holy threat (hit is usless)

Consecration - Only the first tick can be missed (hit is negligibly useful)

Shield of Righteousnes - I average about 4 Absorbs or partial absorbs on any boss fight. (Is that even effected by Hit)

Hammer of the Righteous - I average about 3-4 deflections per boss fight. (Which is effected by Expertise) (mine is 6.5% or 26 Expertise)

Holy Shield - Mine hits for 700ish (1300 threat) and not effected by hit)

Avenger's Shield - Effected by hit, but with 5% hit it hardly ever misses.

Exorcism- See Avenger's Shield.

Judgment of X - Cant really rememeber what this goes off.


IN CONCLUSION:

Hit is needed, it is not something to intentionally stack.

Same with Expertise, Nice to have not something ones has to stack.


In effect by going all Avoidance or BR/BV gear we make up for the added threat gained from having high Hit and Expertise. It just scales better, because unlike the other tanking classes hit just does not factor in.

Also because our melee hits do not go through our modifier like warriors their misses and parries do not effect us.

which is why we are fundamentally different.

[Quest]

I agree with that for the most part. Though its redundant to list what +hit effects in terms of skills, becuse the math has been done to death on Maintankadin. I mean every variation of rotation/glyph/talents. In some circumstances +hit even comes out to be more TPS/DPS than str at some point. I believe its when tanking trash so I didn't really pay attention.

Anyway, like you said, +hit generally shouldn't be stacked. BV is worth 3rd place and is close behind +hit anyway.

The point though, is that the better we understand each point of itemization, and how it corolates to how we tank as not only a class, but as a dozen differant spects and rotations, we are better able to weigh gear based on them.

That being said, there is a good chance there will be a peice of gear that forces you to choose between some BV, and some +hit. And some people will automatically choose BV, and you know what, thats fine, but some of us really want to know instead of assuming. I dont think anyone here would pass up the chance to trade 100BV for 200hit. Obviously thats an extreem, but where is the point when too little hit is traded to a persons assumtion and they choose to just keep the BV? 150+hit? 100? And what point mathematically do they cross when taking in consideration the boss/my gear/healers/rotation/spec.