New UI Add-On Development Policy

[OldManWolfy]

The end user don't have to pay for the hosting, that's the difference.

Webscrappers like WoWMatrix is BAAAAAAAAD.

/EOD.

I don't argue that the hosting costs are not an issue, but without a better solution that's what people are stuck with. So bullshit on the /EOD, sorry.

Frankly I think that with the massive gajillions of bucks Blizzard's making, they could start actually hosting mods and put a lot of THAT end of the nonsense to rest (though the mod sites would all dry up because they couldn't get advertising because without the hits they couldn't get ANY advertising to cover what traffic they DID get).

*shrug* no matter though, because after all now with Blizzard squashing the masses no-one's ever going to develop a mod again. :

[we_are_borg]

my god, does anyone read the EULA and TOS of a software they install these days?


i suggest you go to http://www.wow-europe.com/en/legal/eula.html and start reading.

section 4.a :
yes, the mods you developed for WoW belong to blizzard, you signed and agreed to it the second you installed the game. don't like it? remove the addon.

section 15
if you don't like the modification to the ToS, uninstall the game, you have a month.

i won't venture an opinion on what blizzard is doing, personally i don't care if the addons are free or not, but stop sprouting nonsense about your legal rights of ownership. you didn't develop a stand alone LUA application, you developed a modification based on WoW API, and according to your implied agreement with blizzard (consented the second you installed WoW and/or any of it's components) the modification itself doesn't belong to you as a commercial venture (intellectual properties are another matter, you can use it as a base of reference when you seek out employment for example, or use it freely to develop your own LUA based application).

Blizzard can put in the EULA that your house, computer and you belong to them thats their right. But luckely their is something called the law, in the law it clearly staes some aspects what you can and cant ask of people. The copyright law states here in the Netherlands when i write a book, paper etc etc even code for an addon that the copyright is mine, the fact that blizzard says its theirs don't matter, the law is above any EULA. Also here in the Netherlands the EULA is not valid, why you ask the EULA is reveled after i pay for the game and installs it. Thereby when i dont accept the EULA (does not matter if its against the law because that a matter for a judge) i have the right to ask my money back. When blizzard changes the EULA again i must have the right to turn in the game and get my money back, but thats no where to be found where i can reclaim my money whe i don't accept the EULA.

People who are comparing glider with carbonite are verry mistaken what the two programs do, glider change code to do what is does. Carbonite only hooks in into the game following what the API can do. Blizzard uses the API from Windows to adress videocard and soundcard and many more things. So Windows is like WoW what addons comparison goes. Blizzard is also stating that i need to provide free access to the addon well on my website i'm calling the shots blizzard cant demand anything on my server or on my website. If i place adds there asking for support or make my forum access a paid only thats something blizzard cant interfere with. In game adds they can ban it but on some one else their server/home the cant. People who forget the cost of servers and bandwidth should start look around what it cost for curse to keep things running.

Also i my protect my work from others and even open source can ask money for some stuff like support, thereby blizzard cant demand to see whats on my harddisk if i cant read code because its protected its mine choice. I think blizzard is going to be hit hard back we now know their a few addon developers that have stopped working on addons because of this. If to many stop it can have negative impact on the User base that pay for WoW and they will change the stuff again.

In my humble opinion this EULA of the API is only to stop a few addon makers like Carbonite from making some sort of cash.

[Drak27]

The fact that people cant see the bigger picture is kinda sad. Everyone speaking on personal gains and losses but no one has yet to mention or even state the bigger view of all these changes and why they are happening.

[pfunk]

I think it's going to get tricky when Blizzard tries to enforce it. You agree to these terms when you install, copy or use the game. However, if one does not own the game, they can not accept an EULA that has not been seen. No game is required to open notepad and create a LUA file. I find tons of information on wowwiki about the API with no acceptance of an EULA.

[theanalogkid]

I think it's going to get tricky when Blizzard tries to enforce it. You agree to these terms when you install, copy or use the game. However, if one does not own the game, they can not accept an EULA that has not been seen. No game is required to open notepad and create a LUA file. I find tons of information on wowwiki about the API with no acceptance of an EULA.

Copyright exists regardless of whether or not you accept the EULA, and Blizzard owns the WoW API.

[we_are_borg]

Copyright exists regardless of whether or not you accept the EULA, and Blizzard owns the WoW API.

Yes copyright exits the API is Blizzards but the addon some one have written is copyrighted to the maker of that addon. People think the EULA is everything and is the law but it isn't, the copyright law precedes the EULA

[theanalogkid]

Yes copyright exits the API is Blizzards but the addon some one have written is copyrighted to the maker of that addon. People think the EULA is everything and is the law but it isn't, the copyright law precedes the EULA

Addons could be considered derivative works.

[Pyrostemplar]

Addons could be considered derivative works.

Hardly - addons do not incorporate anything form wow per se.

On this issue... I wouldn't be surprised that Blizzard implemented a digital signature system for addons in their next MMO, and the game client validates it with the central server before running them.

Anyway, I feel it is a bit sad that they forbid addon devs to ask for contributions ingame. Many people - like myself - get the addons without going to any website, much less the author website (if it exists at all). I' much rather see them mandating the format and frequency of the request than forbiding it - let say the addon can just ask for a contribution in a up to 50 santdard char messages, in white, and on load. And include a non activated text message of 50 per 100 pixels in the addon setup area. Much more reasonable and fair.

Regarding charging for distribution, while I'm no lawyer, I think Blizzard doesn't have a snowball chance in hell to enforce it if anyone with enough money decides to challenge it. Glider case is quite different - envolved copyright issues and most of all it could be construed that negatively impacted upon the company business by affecting ingame economy (same argument against gold sellers). And that it the only objective of that software/activity was against the TOU of the game. This case is netirely different - Blizzard can hardly say that the game is in any way or shape negatively impacted by anyone using addons they themselves created a API to interact with (as long as the addons are working correctly, something is not connected with charging for an add on). In the end, these companies provide a service - whether you want to pay for it or not is up to you.


In the end, some of the changes are good and reasonable, but others if enforced will needlessly have a negative impact on the game, specially the addon non advertising rule. It is all fun and interesting to create something recognized, but in the end of the day there are bills to be paid.

[we_are_borg]

Addons could be considered derivative works.

No it cant be because derivative work is based on the official work the blizzard code of WoW and the API is only to let people allow certain customizations. Thats the so called hooks, there more programs that uses that stuff, and they dont claim addons because they respect the copyright on these addons.
API is only to allow customizations so that you official code is protected and to make sure people does not make what ever they want. Also the programing done is in LUA and thats copyrighted by the LUA organization, under MIT license.

[pfunk]

Addons are not derived work. Addons are written using a language that is freely available under the MIT license(as we_are_borg pointed out). Like I said, it will be extremely difficult to enforce this policy. Carbonite seems to be the target of this EULA change. Even if by some miracle they can prove the LUA files are derived work which goes against the LUA license, the accompanying data XML files are going to have to proven derived as well with no references to any of the API.

[Jushak]

Lets see...

Open-sourcing code? Good. Maybe now I don't have to say goodbyes to some great add-ons when their maker stops playing WoW. Makes for safer add-ons too, with higher propability of malicious code being detected quickly, along with the other benefits.

Add-on writers who are crying over not being allowed to bother people using your add-on with annoying "donate now!!!" messages, shame on you. As a rule I never donate to someone who makes his add-on pester for it. If the add-on you made is good enough, people will donate. If not... Tough luck.

Besides, if lack of donations is enough to stop you from making add-ons, then you're doing them for wrong reasons entirely. If you want to make money with your programming skills, get a job where you get paid for it.

The idiot who compared free add-ons to going to work and telling your boss you're now working for free... Get a clue. Work is work, making add-on is a hobby. Big bloody difference.

To people posting "lulz Blizz R stealz Ur codez"... I must admit it crossed my mind too, but really, it's quite ridiculous. I personally believe that the reason they add their own crappy versions of the well-known add-ons is to give the players who refuse to use add-ons (yes, there are people like that out there) the benefits while allowing the original works created by the community to shine.

And lastly, to the people saying paid add-ons are better... I call bullshit. The only benefit with them is that the makers are more keen to keep them up-to-date to keep the money coming in.

[bluspacecow]

Um... You DO know that WOWMATRIX actually DOES link back to every site they access mods for, right? ??? (whenever you highlight a mod, the information pane at the bottom has the link for the mod and the author... and everytime I see someone saying WM doesn't give credit I have to :)

And how many people will actually use that link to go to the authors site directly from wowmatrix ?

IMHO Only a handful of people.

Most will concentrating too much on the Big 'ole friendly "Update all" button in all it's false positive glory........

More often than not it's the Curse site if that's available, but considering the vast amount of mods I have to update, no other updater is going to help keep my mods working without costing me a LOT of time chasing updates down

Then don't. Get them to email them when they change. Scan each email for what sounds like a major update.

Is this addon broken ? Do I need the new features ?Do I play in Russian ? Am I at all interested downloading a change flagged as "tagged as version 3.02c" ? Is this addon working perfectly fine ?

Then make an informed decision from there.

I have.

As a consequence I know who writes my addons, where to go to seek help, how often they get updated, what versions are current , what bugs have been fixed and what sort of updates have been comitted.

Now can you say the same hmmmm

PS Having users click on a line and expand something down the bottom isn't exactly prominently visible is it ? Most would ignore it for their magic "update all button"

[randprin]

When you go into work tomorrow, please inform your employer on your views. Let them know that you are now willing to work for free because you no longer expect to get compensated for all of your hard work. In fact anyone who does should be considered expendable because requiring compensation for hard work is just greed. Pure and simple.

you, my friend, really have no clue what work is, do you?
see, i go to the office every day to design and develop code based on our client's requirements, i do the job and then i get paid for it, since that was my agreement with my boss (i work X hours for Y amount, and while on the job my responsibilities and functions are Z1 to Zn).
no one signed an agreement with any of the mod developers.
no one promised them any compensation, montary or otherwise. In fact, back in 2005 when the modding community just started it was very clear that this was for fun and to improve the gameplay rather then the ugly greedy industry it became since then.

[randprin]

Blizzard can put in the EULA that your house, computer and you belong to them thats their right. But luckely their is something called the law, in the law it clearly staes some aspects what you can and cant ask of people. The copyright law states here in the Netherlands when i write a book, paper etc etc even code for an addon that the copyright is mine, the fact that blizzard says its theirs don't matter, the law is above any EULA. Also here in the Netherlands the EULA is not valid, why you ask the EULA is reveled after i pay for the game and installs it. Thereby when i dont accept the EULA (does not matter if its against the law because that a matter for a judge) i have the right to ask my money back. When blizzard changes the EULA again i must have the right to turn in the game and get my money back, but thats no where to be found where i can reclaim my money whe i don't accept the EULA.

People who are comparing glider with carbonite are verry mistaken what the two programs do, glider change code to do what is does. Carbonite only hooks in into the game following what the API can do. Blizzard uses the API from Windows to adress videocard and soundcard and many more things. So Windows is like WoW what addons comparison goes. Blizzard is also stating that i need to provide free access to the addon well on my website i'm calling the shots blizzard cant demand anything on my server or on my website. If i place adds there asking for support or make my forum access a paid only thats something blizzard cant interfere with. In game adds they can ban it but on some one else their server/home the cant. People who forget the cost of servers and bandwidth should start look around what it cost for curse to keep things running.

Also i my protect my work from others and even open source can ask money for some stuff like support, thereby blizzard cant demand to see whats on my harddisk if i cant read code because its protected its mine choice. I think blizzard is going to be hit hard back we now know their a few addon developers that have stopped working on addons because of this. If to many stop it can have negative impact on the User base that pay for WoW and they will change the stuff again.

In my humble opinion this EULA of the API is only to stop a few addon makers like Carbonite from making some sort of cash.

the code is yours, the application is yours.
the second you hook that code to WoW, you have to abide by blizzard rules regarding 3rd party programs (read: addons) allowed in the game.
i think for the most part what you'll probably get if you violate the ToS is a block on your addon, and in more severe cases use of the addon will be a banable offense to it's users(meaning no one will use it most likely, with the same end result)

like i stated previously, you don't have to abide by blizzard's change of policy, remove your addon interfacing with WoW and it's done (offcourse, you are now sitting around with an application that does absolutely nothing, but hey, it's yours)

[FritzTheCat]

I created an account just to post in this thread. I see a point or two has been missed.

#1 Name another major MMO that allows add-ons AT ALL. Go ahead, I'll wait.

#2 It just says you cannot solicit for donations in-game, and that you should do it on your website instead. Why not just code in the URL of your website somewhere in huge letters in the help screen for your add-on?

#3 Developers, yes, we all appreciate your hard work on the add-ons you create, but stop, think... nobody twisted your arm to make you spend your time on it. You already knew you were getting an opportunity you get almost nowhere else (the ability to create an add-on for a HUGE market game, earn fame and a lil pocket padding in donations for doing so, without being there from the ground-up) - They basically did nothing but change the wording in their terms to better suit their attitude, and did so essentially as a warning to those who've been creating add-ons with the notion that players should HAVE to pay for them. If you don't like it, quit making WoW add-ons. There are plenty of other coders out there who'll just be happy to see someone using their code without demanding money for it. Maybe its not as epic as yours, but who cares? If they keep practicing and stop whining, it'll be BETTER THAN YOURS.

Seriously if you stop making add-ons or updating your famously used one over this, you're just a greedy damn baby. Remind yourself why you wrote the code in the first place.

[Jushak]

And how many people will actually use that link to go to the authors site directly from wowmatrix ?

IMHO Only a handful of people.

You are entitled to your opinion, but as someone who does use it - for convenience reasons - I'm much more likely to go the developers site and donate via wowmatrix than if there's annoying ad in-game from the add-on. In fact I'm likely to find another add-on very quickly if I ever see donation requests in-game.

Then don't. Get them to email them when they change. Scan each email for what sounds like a major update.

Time is money. This game is a pass-time, most of us have to deal with enough work/study related e-mails to not want to deal with same in our free time.

To be honest parts of the add-on community disgust me. They act like they should be getting donations when it's supposed to be sharing results of a hobby with the community. Don't get me wrong: Nothing wrong with giving/asking kindly for donations, but some of the posters I've seen here and elsewhere have gone beyond "donations are nice" to "what? only this much?"

[pfunk]

#1 Name another major MMO that allows add-ons AT ALL. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Warhammer.... oh wait, you said major. hahahah

[nazrakin]

And how many people will actually use that link to go to the authors site directly from wowmatrix ?

IMHO Only a handful of people.

Most will concentrating too much on the Big 'ole friendly "Update all" button in all it's false positive glory........

Well only a handful of people will be willing to donate at all.

Anyway, if people are too distracted or lazy to use donation links outside of the game what makes anyone think they'll use them inside the game where there are likely far more distractions and the process is far more involved?

[drakonblayde]

If I were a for-profit add-on author, this is what I'd do:

I would setup a website with a generic name, not anything related to wow, or anything related to MMO's in particular. I would then design my own support library, with my own code, and publish the API. I would then code addons to use function calls to this library. So far, this code is only good in a LUA sandbox environment. It would have absolutely no ties to WoW or anything else.

I would then sell these addons.

Now, all it would take is for someone to write a WoW addon that would replace my standard library. Instead, you'd write a library that had the same name and accepted all the same function calls. But instead of running code on those function calls like in my standard library, you'd just need to have them translate my function calls into Blizzard API calls. This addon would have the effect of acting as middleware that promoted interoperability between different commercial code bases. This addon would be distributed for free.

Now, of course, I could not write and distribute this glue addon myself. Blizzard's policy specifically precludes charging for services related to the addon. Now, if I establish the API and code beforehand, and then the glue addon is created afterwards, I think there's a legal arguement that the addon would be related to my service, and my services would not be related to my addon. After all, someone could just as easily code the same sort of glue library for WAR, and if Blizzard tried to go after me for selling service related to an addon, that would have the net effect of trying to apply their policy to at least two different peoples intellectual properties. I don't think it'd ever hold up in court, but it's still grey enough that I wouldn't want to risk it.

No, it would be much safer if the glue addon came from an entirely independent author. At that point, the only recourse would be for Blizzard to block the glue addon, which would be simple enough to get around, and probably not actionable under the DMCA, since it has provisions to allow for interoperability.

Everything on the up and up, no one liable for legal action, nice, tight, clean. If it worked, other authors could just code for my API and then it would work in WoW via the free glue library, or they could follow the same route and develop their own API and wait for a third party glue library to show up.

As for how this glue library would initially come to be? I think there'd be a very good chance that it would just show up on places like Curse and WOWI one day, along with a declaration from it's author that the code was in the public domain, have at it boys.

I, of course, would applaud this author, and make it known that I would be willing to donate a portion of my proceeds to any author who was willing to take that glue library and keep it current with the WoW API.

I won't be the only person to think of this. Hell, I doubt I'm the *first* person to think of this. If I had a development team, I wouldn't even need for a mystery author to make the glue library available to the public domain. All I'd have to do is have one member of the dev team become "independent" and be responsible for writing and maintaining the glue library to WoW. Then I'd just give him his portion of the cut from the real addon as a donation for his work on the glue library. Absolutely nothing would be actionable, beyond banning the glue library.

I suspect, though, that actually doing this would be a very quick way to get the WoW addon API rendered inoperable. And boy wouldn't that be fun?

[drakonblayde]

section 4.a :
yes, the mods you developed for WoW belong to blizzard, you signed and agreed to it the second you installed the game. don't like it? remove the addon.

Applet != addon. And no, it's not really a semantic arguement, Blizzard has already conceded the difference by creating very specific guidelines for third party addons.

And besides, it's fairly obvious that section relates to Blizzards developed in house code.

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Blizzard is *not* stupid enough to try and force a reassignment of Copyright through their EULA. Doing that could make them liable for infringements.