Yogg with no assistance vs. Algalon

[Raylazan]

Which encounter will be harder: Yogg-saron with no keepers helping, or Algalon? Right now blizzard is acting like Algalon will be harder since there is a title for killing him, and saying "he feeds of your tears" and all that. But based on the datamined abilities, yogg-saron looks like a much more fun fight, where as Algalon just looks like a fight tht does Uber Damage and you need Uber Heals. However, evidence also points toward Yogg being super hard with no buffs. for instance, the Glory of the Ulduar raider achievent requires every hard mode in ulduar maxed out except Yogg (for him its only "one light" in the dark). If Algalon ends up being harder, i hope they do something interesting with the "phasing out" thing, and not have it be like tthe twilight drakes where it's basically just another room where you kill adds.

[Extrema]

I think that your post is just plain stupid. i mean srsly who cairz.

[Weenietot]

Useless speculation is useless. Why not ask who will be harder: Arthas or the end boss of the 3.2 raid? People know just about as much as those two encounters as they do Algalon and Yogg Saron in regards to difficulty.

[TerrorTubby]

Ulduar is the same difficulty as TK/SSC


ENOUGH SAID

ITS CRAP

oh yeah i just remember how many guilds wiped a lot of IDs at Kael or Vashj :

[Snuffam]

WE CAN MAKE A DECISION BECAUSE THOSE TWO FIGHTS HAVE BEEN TESTED...

Pointless thread is pointless mmmmm....k?

[Raylazan]

Useless speculation is useless. Why not ask who will be harder: Arthas or the end boss of the 3.2 raid? People know just about as much as those two encounters as they do Algalon and Yogg Saron in regards to difficulty.

I wasnt saying that people KNOW which one will be harder, i just want to see what they guess.

[Extrema]

wow.... i just posted that as i joke because i know Raylazan irl. And now everyone is piling on. Many other threads have been started about speculation and people haven't said 'speculation is pointless' and stuff like that. This seems to show that people like to have other people agreeing with them on the thread, otherwise they are afraid to post. This is completely hilarious.

[Deleted]

Ulduar is the same difficulty as TK/SSC


ENOUGH SAID

ITS CRAP

Vashj and,especialy Kael,were 2 of the hardest encounters in game,in terms of complexivity and coordination needed.Such beeing the case,I highly doubt its on par with ulduar,if you take in consideration the "wide audience" policy used up to now in wrath VS the "elitist" one from TBC.Do not take the 72346273 times nerfed kael/vashj and the fact some overgeared ppl did it with ease as a difficulty level.When they came out,it took many,MANY weeks to have a decent amount of guilds clear them.

[Wilko]

Ulduar is the same difficulty as TK/SSC


ENOUGH SAID

ITS CRAP

Another mouth on legs who has no clue.

Kael and Vashj were both very tough fights before they got nerfed for people like you to come pick up your epics.

[khornate68]

oh yeah i just remember how many guilds wiped a lot of IDs at Kael or Vashj :

he obviously never did tk/ssc pre nerf/attunement removal

[GlassShardx]

I think blizzards goal was to make the ulduar normal modes easier then SSC/TK were but at the same time, to make the hard modes so they were on par with SSC/TK.

I don't imagine Algalon will be easy just because they've stated they want everyone to see content. Considering they've said they want the hard modes to appeal to the hardcore raiders who want the challenge, and Algalon is only available if you've done the hard modes, I'd expect him to be harder then the other hard modes in ulduar.

[Wani]

you going to say "PRE NERF SUNWELL" aswell?

TK/SSC was a joke and if you thought it wasnt a joke then you were doing something wrong

You picked it up wrong. Hyjal and BT were not that difficult, SSC and TK WERE hard (remember how hydross used to crush the tank?)

And err, yes, pre-nerf sunwell was hard.

[Revnant]

LOL here we go, the "PRE-NERF" ppl are here lol

you going to say "PRE NERF SUNWELL" aswell?

TK/SSC was a joke and if you thought it wasnt a joke then you were doing something wrong

Translation: LOOK GUYZZ I KILLED KAEL AFTER 3.0 I HAS SKILLZZ

[cchsballa06]

There was quite a big difference between the early versions of SSC/TK and the nerfed versions though. They made it easier over time so more people could see content.

While now what they do is make it easy so everyone can see everything, and add in hard modes, in the past they made the content as hard as they wanted it for the better guilds and slowly nerfed it away. Comparing the original Vashj to what she ended up, it really was a big difference in difficulty. Only Nihilum beat the first version and only by using a bug.

While noone is taking away your achievement of beating an easier version of her, it was an easier version you beat. TK/SSC provided plenty of challenge for more or less any guild for a period of time. Some of the TK trash was harder than a Naxx boss. Yes it was nerfed heavily before you cleared it, but at the time of release it was a nice difficulty.

SSC/TK original forms were far harder than Ulduar will be. But Ulduar will probably be on a similar level to what SSC/TK was after 3.0 I think.

i think that is very wrong...i can expect some pugs to go into ulduar and if it is a good pug filled with mostly good players and a few mediocre players but they probably have never raided before except a few random pugs, then they will not know what the others players are gonna do if something happens...healers will be nerfing themselves by being very inefficient in their healing because they wont know what the other healers are going to do

and the biggest thing will be dps that destroys the raid by doing stuff...like idk not standing in the right spot on some bosses like hodir, maybe stupid people in flame leviathin not knowing what to do....so like they said this raid instance is going to be more about raid communication unlike naxx....everything in that raid is just burn baby burn(except 4 horse, sarth to an extent is another difference...malygos a bit kel'thezud probably being the biggest in naxx) in ulduar the bosses will kill pugs on some of the more complicated fights.

now raiding guilds that have raided for a while...idk say the top 50% on a server will breeze through to maybe council and general vezax or w/e his name is...they will have trouble on him for 2-4 weeks then get by them and then struggle with yogg for about another month...kill him get started on doing some easier hard modes while saving the harder ones until they are better geared and then going to the harder hard modes and then finally struggling on algalon for another month or 2....so i'm guessing with most guilds it will take them about 2-3 months maybe even 4 months to progress through all of ulduar(be real)

top10% of guilds on a server(you know the guys that cleared mostly all of Sunwell maybe got blocked at M'uru for a while and then finally got past and then took a few weeks to finally beat KIl'jaeden before 3.0) will probably blow through most of udluar 1st reset..maybe stopping at general because either they aren't ready or just do not understand the fights totally...but will definately have enough practice to clear up to yoggy the next reset ...idk maybe get him down...next reset they will start practising the easy hard modes and then the moderate hard modes at the same time...saving the hard ones for better gear...after about a month they should be able to unlock algalon and take about another 2 weeks to beat him(1 week if they are really good) and finally claiming a full clear in about 1 and a half months to 2 months

top guilds in world will of course skip all easy modes and try for all the hard modes to get the world first on algalon....that's what i see happening...and that maybe taking 1 to 2 weeks

[Distx]

You wish. Its the same level of the expansion, but in difficulty TK + SSC probably will > Icecrown.

Everything on the PTR has pointed to ulduar being cleaned out in a week, hard modes in no less than a month. SSC/TK had a far longer lifespan.

Ahh so many posts like this popping up. I think people should worry about how long its going to take their own guild to clear it rather then watching top guilds on streams do it and then say to yourself "OMG TO EASY". Even if you've been on the ptr you havent done all the fights and most likely not even half of them. So yea go ahead, clear it in a week.

[Izenhart]

SSC/TK original forms were far harder than Ulduar will be. But Ulduar will probably be on a similar level to what SSC/TK was after 3.0 I think.

No, just...no.

Kael was painly hard, BUT, same Algalon and Yogg Saron on hard modes will be.

Solarian, Lootreaver, Al'ar far harder than Iron council, Mimiron and Freya? Plain shit.

[Azshira]

@ Priestgirl09, just to clarify slightly in your post that you said only Nilihum killed Vashj in her first form? Wrong, Method did to, three times, no bugs, I'm sure the videos are still up, but they got the world first 'un-bugged kill of Vashj' but technically Nilihum still killed her first and her 'sister' appeared, which still makes me laugh xD and all that GM crap: "is this the first time this bug has happened?" (well d'uh! world first kill!) LOL, oh Blizz got so much flame for that... good ole days

Anyways guys, all the whole how hard will Ulduar be or X boss be, ITS ALL COMPARED TO SSC/TK, what's the point in repeating the same nonsense in every thread. I personally know how difficult SSC/TK were, I wasn't in there before the removed attunements to SSC/TK, I got in after that, yes it was partially nerfed with Hydross down I think it was 500k or 1mil hp (cant remember) and other bosses were fixed and all that, and trash respawned in a nice time instead of 45mins along the pumping station, and they were still top-notch bosses. THAT WAS MY FUN! Kael we killed on version 3 which is where the adds had a reduction in hp on the first pull to make the fight about 5 minutes or so shorter, version 1 was unkillable and version 2 well the top guilds took it down, I remember only 1 guild on my old server had him down with version 2. Heck.. even version 3 only about 4-5 guilds on my old server had him down, rest followed in later nerfs.

If you are going to compare Ulduar piece for piece... why not compare the bosses piece by piece, i.e. Leo = X Ulduar Boss in difficulty etc, maybe that's a better discussion for you instead ALL OF ULDUAR DOES NOT COMPARE TO SSC/TK, well that's complete bullshit, there are harder fights than others in Ulduar than there were in SSC/TK, majority of people arguing are probably those who saw the 3.0 versions where their hp was reduced by a further 30% and that also includes any previous nerfs.

I admit I got annoyed/jealous when I saw the 'really bad guilds' killing bosses I 'slaved' on for days or whatever, but hey I knew I completed them at a time when at least they were harder, some personal pride I suppose. And I never entered SSC on any character after the attunements were removed from Hyjal/BT and same for TK, I did not want to see those bosses I loved so much (loved in the shear epicness of the fights and the times of hardship on them) reduced to something so so unexplainable.

Oh and why only compare Ulduar to SSC/TK? BT and Hyjal were easier than SSC/TK, Kael should of been the final boss of TBC pre. Sunwell, he got more attention than Illidan, he was much harder than Illidan. You know the majority of people said at the time: If you can beat Kael, you can beat Illidan. It speaks for itself, because BT barring 2-3 fights was LAWL MODEZ with MOST bosses cleared in a few attempts, same with Hyjal. Archimonde was the only bastard of a fight in Hyjal, and he was the only boss to receive so many changes, I tell ya every patch something was changed with him, Azalgor was also a little toughie sometimes... he liked RNG a bit much with killing off your healers every time and silencing the others and bye bye tank etc, but hey... In BT, RoS was definately the hardest at the time, followed by probably Illidan, Gurtogg, and then Mother etc. Sure guilds have their different strengths and weaknesses and that's where opinions will differ but hey..

Anyway this post was not meant to be long and hey I fallen into the whole whats harder debate DAMNIT!!! Anyway if you want to compare an instance to an instance do it another way, not just single out Vashj/Kael WE ALL KNOW THEY WERE HARD! (at the time)

[Distx]

But i've been on the PTR and joined a PUG and we cleared Ignis, FL and XT Deconstructor all within 6-7 attempts. We didn't know each other. Half of them were a guild and the rest were pug. Good group yes, but still I remember taking a PUG from my realm of mostly t5-t6 people and failing on the lurker below. I remember my guild who had cleared illidan and waiting for sunwell wiping on the lurker below because we weren't paying attention.

Unless Ulduar is getting a significant buff before being put on live realms the majority of the bosses will be easier than SSC/TK.

For your example:

Flame Leviathian seems very easy in normal mode. One or two bad players are not going to wipe the raid. The only current challenge is learning the veichle mechanics and what the buttons do.
Lurker was also easy but it required co-ordination above all that had come before it in TBC (asides from magi and possibly Maulgar). Without vent, raid warnings etc, people wouldn't get in the water, someone would always die. The fight could take a long time.

Ignis we kited some adds around and nuked him down. Leo required a fully geared warlock tank as well as a good geared MT to survive his hits. People had to spread at whirlwinds, the tanking transition had to be done perfectly. People had to learn how to kill their demons which took some getting used to for prot warriors/holy priests etc.

XT-Deconstructor was a decent fight but once the strategy was known, it was fairly simple nuke the boss manage the adds. Morogrim Tidewalker was similar but far harder in a) It took a lot longer to get him down. b) You needed your tanks to go get the murlocs, it wasn't a case of the player closest to it taking care of them and c) he hit the tank for harder (not numbers but % of max hp at the time).

Everything so far on the PTR is of a lower difficulty than a comparison in SSC. Yes XTD is harder than Lurker but XTD isn't the first boss.

Hard modes may be different sure, but in terms of general difficulty of the normal mode bosses, the original versions of SSC were far more difficult in both the boss fights and the preparation and coordination required. Some of the trash packs were more difficult than Ignis.

Ignis has since been buffed, flame lev is supposed to be easy, XT is supposed to be a bit harder dont know if they've changed him since. The point is half of the other fights are on the EU ptr and the "final" (i say that in quotes because of algalon) won't be tested. I'm not doubting you could possibly clear it in a week and some top guilds may. I'm just saying play it all before you speculate

[Artex]

based on the datamined abilities, yogg-saron looks like a much more fun fight, where as Algalon just looks like a fight tht does Uber Damage and you need Uber Heals.

The abilities as listed down in mmo-champion don't reveal as much as it appears.

There is not a single notice of several facts:

1) Algalon summons black holes, to which players can be sucked into, which phases them out and causes shadow damage every second.

2) Yogg-Saron summons adds, and we have no idea how strong they'll be hitting.

3) So far there the way to survive Incite Madness and Big Bang is not known.

4) The abilities' frequency - no one will know these till the actual fights.

[Azshira]

That's the thing about speculation, you just can guess and guess, but until the real thing is there on video/people talking about it in these forums or a guide or whatever, we just won't know ^^ I expect Yoggster and Algalon to be kept secret till they are dead, cuz guilds will really want those world firsts etc and not go well we wiped a few times but this is everything he does as we see it etc.