Cowards...IN plate?

[Copain]

Ok let me say this before this sounds like one big QQ topic or something, hell in the end it might still sound like one.

I don't think that (Insert class here) is Underpowered or Overpowered. I d on't think that the class/spec I play (...Tank Pally) Is Underpowered or Overpowered. I don't think that Fear is cheap, stuns are cheap, or anything like that, I hate them, but I don't go around hating on it because it's "Such an OP spell" or anything. And I've never had a problem with DK's (mainly cause I can typically win or atleast come close to beating them in PVP xD)


When I see a Plate user, I think "Yes this is aweosme, time for an up close battle!" and it typically is, the person and I will hop around or get out of the way, obviously, but we fight eachother up close where our skills are typically ment. Warriors, Death Knights, Other Pallies (save for Holy?), Cat/bear Druids, hell even Rogues are fun to fight.


However lately I've been seeing the exact opposite. I see Pallies who do some Hybrid thing that maeks it so they stay away from you at all times, and if you touch them they auto heal (and then they slowely beat down at long range). This bothers me, but I deal with it. Then I'll see warriors who won't fight, but run away tell others come... Ok... And then I see something that's just shameful to me.

I see a DK who's afraid to melee entirely. No I don't mean that she attacked once and ran or something, I mean she didn't use a melee skill. She was an Unholy DK who ran away (kiting me with Unholy Presence and not dieing from any skills with frost pressence). I have Prusuit of justice which usually prevents this, but It wasn't possible to catch up to her. My minor skills did nothing as if she lost her Bone armor reduction, she'd use the chains and then run LONGGG ways away tell she could put it back up. The closest she ever got was for Icy touch. Not being one to let this continue, I Run away to LOS her, and then Get Grip'd and froze. Not willing to follow her even then, I continue to run, and just get froze over and over and Death Coil'd.


So basically, you've got an immortal person running around slowely killing you... Does anyone else see this as cowardly? I don't mind Clothies, Leather users, or even Mail users doing that if that's what their class is based on.. but why a Plate user? Why someone who is supossed to be an in your face class.. why do they do cowardly things like this >_<...

[Xs]

Because its an easy way to kill melee, same reason Enhancement Shaman use it at times

[Gottalot]

So basically, you've got an immortal person running around slowely killing you... Does anyone else see this as cowardly? I don't mind Clothies, Leather users, or even Mail users doing that if that's what their class is based on.. but why a Plate user? Why someone who is supossed to be an in your face class.. why do they do cowardly things like this >_<...

First of all you can call it cowardly or whatever you feel like, in wich way you loose.
Second of all if you let your self get kited by melee dps you suck.

[Azharok]

First of all you can call it cowardly or whatever you feel like, in wich way you loose.
Second of all if you let your self get kited by melee dps you suck.

qft.

[Copain]

First of all you can call it cowardly or whatever you feel like, in wich way you loose.
Second of all if you let your self get kited by melee dps you suck.

Aye, I lost. I'm not going around and saying "OMG OP NERF NERF NERF" I'm saying I'm just upset that it's Cowardly.

And to your second part. She wasn't Melee. If you read she was a Death Knight. And she never Melee'd once. And I DID run away to LOS andavoid the Kite, but you can't if you are being Frozen (and yeah, I used freedom when I could) and Death Grip'd at someone who moves your speed and has +armor and + resist, and Bone armor reducing damage more.


What would you have done? Pretend you are a tank Pally.

[Stieger23]

Dude, she DG-ed you into melee range and you kept running away.

Run away to LOS her, and then Get Grip'd and froze. Not willing to follow her even then, I continue to run, and just get froze over and over and Death Coil'd.

Why should she let you get in range? Why didn't you USE YOUR FREAKING STUN after she DGed you? But no, crapped yourself and bugged out. I'm really confused about what you're trying to get at.

[Dubious]

if ppl, like this DK continue to do this in PvP they will most likely get nerfed, cause this isnt "intended" by blizzard

[Suikiele]

So basically, you've got an immortal person running around slowely killing you... Does anyone else see this as cowardly? I don't mind Clothies, Leather users, or even Mail users doing that if that's what their class is based on.. but why a Plate user? Why someone who is supossed to be an in your face class.. why do they do cowardly things like this >_<...

If they are alive and you are dead at the end of the encounter, they won. And it doesn't matter what route they took to get there, because it obviously worked. For Exampled, being Consecrate kited to death can be ridiculous, but if it's a viable tactic and it kills people, why WOULDN'T you?

[Pruxx]

QQ more? L2Play maybe. Um whats that freedom shit you pally's have? USE IT.

[Prentice]

Dude, she DG-ed you into melee range and you kept running away.

Why should she let you get in range? Why didn't you USE YOUR FREAKING STUN after she DGed you? But no, crapped yourself and bugged out. I'm really confused about what you're trying to get at.

You are clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed. Yes, the DK used DG, but read the next few words that he typed. "then Get Grip'd and froze." Getting Gripped just to be frozen =/= melee range. Rinse and repeat the kite game again.

DK's defending DK's without reading or even trying to understand the situation just to be defending another DK is fail.

QQ more? L2Play maybe. Um whats that freedom shit you pally's have? USE IT.

Another person that had never played a pally or read their abilities. Everyone thinks that Freedom is always available and that we can keep it up indefinitely. DK's have as many slowing abilities as a mage and freedom won't cover all of them.

[Prentice]

I am not defending Copain's PvP skills or lack thereof, but I do agree with his complaint about DK's. With all of their slows, stuns, silences, and Death Grip... its impossible to ever get away from one (assuming they have at least look at their spell book before).

The whole word QQ's about Hammer of Justice. Best case scenario, when a paladin is PvP spec'd, the CD will be 40 seconds. Its insane how many snares, stuns, and otherwise annoying abilities DK's have on such short CD's. For this reason, I believe, Copain is kinda tweaked about what they are able to do with them. Its not like they are a mage wearing cloth. They have plate, high hp, a pet(or two or 20), instant attacks the deal huge damage and heal them in the same GCD with a short CD(i didn't say huge heal because DS heal got nerfed).

[Fluffy_Fleshwall]

First let me say I play a prot pally, both in pve and pvp. But I can't see how you couldn't kill her.

I would deal with such a situation this way:
1: Change seal to Seal of Justice, it might proc when you get in range.
2: Use judgement of justice, you are now faster then she is.
3: Chains of ice -> Counter with clense, NOT with BoF.
4: Use stun and Avengers sheild as often as possible.

Those steps should put you in melee range, THEN use BoF to guarantee that you have a 12s undisturbed space where you can hammer her with all you have.


Now, these are all beautiful words, and its easy to be smart in the aftermath. But imho, adaptability in combat what separates a decent player from a good one. It is also what makes the paladin class so fun to lay.

[Deralte]

What would you have done? Pretend you are a tank Pally.

Bubble + hearth

[Stieger23]

I am not defending Copain's PvP skills or lack thereof, but I do agree with his complaint about DK's. With all of their slows, stuns, silences, and Death Grip... its impossible to ever get away from one (assuming they have at least look at their spell book before).

The whole word QQ's about Hammer of Justice. Best case scenario, when a paladin is PvP spec'd, the CD will be 40 seconds. Its insane how many snares, stuns, and otherwise annoying abilities DK's have on such short CD's. For this reason, I believe, Copain is kinda tweaked about what they are able to do with them. Its not like they are a mage wearing cloth. They have plate, high hp, a pet(or two or 20), instant attacks the deal huge damage and heal them in the same GCD with a short CD(i didn't say huge heal because DS heal got nerfed).

DKs have stuns?

Tell me more about this ability.

[psicorp]

you do realize you can cleanse off Chains of ice right? you don't need to use freedom for that. if you walk back out of range to escape the kite, cleanse spam on yourself will do fine, he is going to run out of frost runes in a fe seconds.


i will also say kiting paladins is a useful way for we frost knights to beat you. an equally geared ret pally should completely wipe the floor a DK, so DKs have come up with some oddball strategies to beat them. kiting is probably the easiest and most successful. to beat a (equally geared) retadin, in melee you have to be absolutly perfect. you make one mistake and he will fry you for lunch.

first off, is preventing him from ever, EVER hammer of justicing you. if he gets off HoJ that lands and your trinket isnt up, its game over. so you have to preform a cooldown rotation to prevent him from doing so. icy touch from range for the RP, trigger bone armor, if unholy, do not trigger unbreakable if frost. and walk in. when AMS ends, use strangulate, when it ends, use ice bound fortitude. a smart one will at this point hit you with repentance and run. do NOT trinket it. wait it out and deathgrip him. natuturally rune tap every cooldown, if you have it. at this point your both going to be pretty low, but likely he will be lower because of all the time he spent not being able to use much magical power. if he ever burned wings then he is stupid and you win. but most of em arent stupid enough to wings in a fight with a DK, so he will bubble. and heal to full. summon a ghoul, death pact it, rune tap to get yourself close to full and restart the fight. if AMS has come back off cooldown, pop it. if not, he will open with hammer of justice, immediately trinket it. pop unbreakable armor if frost, and it turns into a DPS race.

now i put down this list to elaborate something, you dont micro manage fights the way most DKs do against retadins on classes you beat easily.

you know what mine for a rogue looks like?

frost presence. dont bother trinketing a stun, its not going to matter. when stunlock ends and he dismantles, icy touch twice for the rp then hungering cold him. wait for dismantle and wound poison to wear off, rune tap, maybe death pact if he had some really stellar dps, kick the shit out of him till he vanishes and runs away. if he trinkets hungering cold, pop unbreakable armor. kick the shit out of him till he vanishes and runs away.

so a DK, especially a frost DK, who is kiting you, he isnt being a coward, he is justifiably just shit scared of the nasty holy juggernaut who is going to bend him over and rape him up the tail pipe as has happened so many times before

[ToRLiK]

Hand of freedom+Cleanse+Judgement of justice+Hammer of justice=profit???

[Prentice]

DKs have stuns?

Tell me more about this ability.

Please take the time to read through your spell book, as you clearly have not. Its spec based, just like the pets, but its called Gnaw. See http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=47481

[Prentice]

Hand of freedom+Cleanse+Judgement of justice+Hammer of justice=profit???

All of those abilities require mana from the microscopic mana pool that prot pallys have. Divine Plea will only help a little and even having it glyphed is worthless if you can't actually melee something.

[Agroculture]

Is there a point in this thread?Or is it simply a (stupidly) disguised QQ that someone beat you by playing their relative strenghts against you (in that case the larger ranged capabilities of the DK compared toa Paladin)?

You know what?Fuck this.I hereby declare that you pick a spec to beat melee,and when melee don't comply to your idea of how a fight should be between melee,you bitch and moan about it or even worse try to sneak nerfs for said melee "Why are they cowards? can become "They shouldn't be cowards!" which can become "Blizzard force them not to be cowards;remove their ranged options!".

Also I think you are a coward hiding behind a shield.Manly men use two-handers in lieu of their penises (you know the cold,having just porked a million gorgeous babes and all that)!

[Prentice]

now i put down this list to elaborate something, you dont micro manage fights the way most DKs do against retadins on classes you beat easily.

He's a prot pally. Nothing like fighting a ret.