Feral Druids - the Bear guide

**Selverein** · 2009-08-12, 12:08 PM

Agility, stick with it. Or the Shifting Agi/Stam mostly for blue sockets with good bonuses.

The nerf was only "useful" to equalize the usefulness of tanking stats, mostly for the tanks who use more than one. We kinda got the short hand of the stick on this one, but the nerf isn't all that noticeable. Plus, it just means you need more Agility now, which should be all the more reason to gem it all the way (meta requirements being the exclusion to that).

**rated** · 2009-08-16, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Selverein

Agility, stick with it. Or the Shifting Agi/Stam mostly for blue sockets with good bonuses.

The nerf was only "useful" to equalize the usefulness of tanking stats, mostly for the tanks who use more than one. We kinda got the short hand of the stick on this one, but the nerf isn't all that noticeable. Plus, it just means you need more Agility now, which should be all the more reason to gem it all the way (meta requirements being the exclusion to that).

yeah when 3.2 hit i lost 2% dodge, which is hardly significant. Infact its like i never lost anything due to all the sexy epics been thrown at me by blizzrd.

**Goodge** · 2009-08-20, 07:05 PM

There is actually no definite answer on Stam vs agi that will fit all situations.

When gearing up and gemming, stamina should actually be your primary concern *until* you have enough of it. Then go with agility.

There are 3 scenarios.

1) If you find yourself getting burst down too much in your current raiding content either because of high magical dmg OR too much incoming phys dmg, then you need more stamina. Obv, agility does nothing against magical dmg. Equally, if a boss hits you so hard and fast that you can't live a few seconds without a heal, then you need more stamina (and armor). You might think, well if I have more agility, i'll be able to dodge more phys dmg but that is wrong: just like any tank will cover his ass by becoming crit immune, you want to cover your ass with being "dodge immune"; i.e. be able to survive a string of unlucky hits with no dodge.

2) Conversely, if you have so much stamina but so very little agility that your healers find themselves going OOM healing you, then you need more mitigation/avoidance. Further increasing your stamina will do absolutely nothing for you here. However, it should be noted that this situation really doesn't happen much since healer mana pools and regen are pretty strong right now in almost every raid setting.

3) If you find yourself taking too much burst AND your healers are running oom at the same time, then you should find another tank. Your overall gear lvl is insufficient for the content you are raiding.

Personal experience: My guild has 6/9 hardmodes in 25 and we defeated algalon in my 10 man group. In the middle of our Ulduar progression, I was happy with 45k HP fully buffed. My gear had a mix of agi/stam in it with an agility slant. When we started tacklin more bursty bosses (such as Algalon or Iron coucil HM) I decided to up my stamina a little. Epic gmes came in handy and I'm now sitting at just over 50k HP.

Note1:It also helps to keep different items in your inventory for when you need more avoidance, or more HP, or more threat.

Note2: Regarding agility and threat, agility is one of the worst threat stats we have. A while back I tested it in rawr and regemming full agi vs full stamina only gave me a tps increase of less than 1.5%. If your threat is bad, check your talents (imp mangle and master shapeshifter) and sub in items with more threat stats, expertise in particular.

Note3: If you keep your stamina high enough and forget about the agility freaks for a moment, you will also be able to use less external CDs to survive bursts. Ex: Mimiron's plasma blast, or Vezax's Surge of darkness. This puts you more in control of your ability to survive through those events and requires one less action from your healers. Barksin + SI, and Barkskin + glyphed FR + agi trinket can cover the 1st and 3rd burst of a three CD rotation.

**Telaso** · 2009-08-20, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by rated

yeah when 3.2 hit i lost 2% dodge, which is hardly significant. Infact its like i never lost anything due to all the sexy epics been thrown at me by blizzrd.

I had about the same, but using the Idol of Mutilation made up for that entirely for me anyway.

**arel00** · 2009-08-20, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Goodge

There is actually no definite answer on Stam vs agi that will fit all situations.

When gearing up and gemming, stamina should actually be your primary concern *until* you have enough of it. Then go with agility.

...

Partially quoted to avoid a second wall, but I kept you whole post in mind.

In short, it's up to good sense and your raid needs. As you noticed, there are actually two fights where stamina is extremely stronger, Algalon and Steelbreaker HM. I've found, as you did, that on the rest (including other hardmodes) a set of agility, agility/stamina gemming performs the best.

For a more "accurate" answer, we'll need two week time. That is, until Anub'arak dies and we start seeing Coliseum heroic mode.

To sum it up: unless you're a MT for hardmode groups, agility is the best setup*granted that you have a decent health pool*. For cutting edge fights, stamina is better (2 fights now). For progression into the unknown, stamina helps.
However, my personal opinion, mind it, it's an opinion, is to keep gemming for agility / agility-stamina. It is very likely that a hardmode tank can mirror items and have a stamina set. I do, and I'm not even that uber on progression either :P

**numufu** · 2009-08-27, 12:21 AM

I took into account the BiS Ulduar hardmode weapons for BiS tanking, but ever since the new raid, I was wondering if someone could help me figure out what the -new- BiS tanking weapon would be. There are currently two that I am looking at. Here is a link from WOWHEAD: http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=47302;47329

The weapon names are Twin's Pact and Hellion Glaive. I personally believe Hellion Glaive would be more suitable for a tanking weapon, and Twin's Pact to be more along the lines of a BiS for kitty dps. Any thoughts?

**arel00** · 2009-08-27, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by numufu

I took into account the BiS Ulduar hardmode weapons for BiS tanking, but ever since the new raid, I was wondering if someone could help me figure out what the -new- BiS tanking weapon would be. There are currently two that I am looking at. Here is a link from WOWHEAD: http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=47302;47329

The weapon names are Twin's Pact and Hellion Glaive. I personally believe Hellion Glaive would be more suitable for a tanking weapon, and Twin's Pact to be more along the lines of a BiS for kitty dps. Any thoughts?

I'm currently working on a new gear compilation for T9 level loot. I hope to be able to add it very soon.

Regarding your link, Hellion Glaive beats the other, hands down. Crit is MUCH more efficient as a tank stat than Haste.

**Telaso** · 2009-08-28, 03:01 PM

I have a question for you more seasons Feral Tanks out there. I have been raiding mainly as Cat because my guild usually has 2 pally tanks and a warrior that show up. Lately I have had to tank more, and I'm curious at what my stats should be like.

Since I have my cat gear equipped on the armory atm, I shall link out my gear that I can remember off the top of my head.

Head Peice (Meta, Red, Enchant)
Neck Peice
Shoulders (Red, but Blue, Enchant)
Cloak (Enchant)
Chest Peice (Red, Blue, Enchant
Bracers (Red, but Blue, Enchant)
Weapon (Enchant)
Idol
Gloves (Yellow, but Blue, Enchant)
Belt (Belt Buckle with Red)
Legguards (Blue, Yellow, but Blue, Enchant)
Boots (Blue, Enchant)
Ring 1 Yes I know Parry is useless, but lack of others.
Ring 2 (Blue) Yes I know Parry is useless, but lack of others.
Trinket 1
Trinket 2

Spec
Glyph 1
Glyph 2
Glyph 3

Ok, I probably spent way to much time making that but there it is.

I seem to have major Rage and threat issues, I have tried stacking more stamina so I will have lower dodge, but even then I run out and the DPS overcomes me. Anyone else notice that? I think I sit at 48k hp with around 42% dodge and 44% crit fully buffed. I never really have to MT, but on other various fights I am having major issues. I am not sure what I am doing wrong to be honest.

I use Maul every attack I can, Mangle and Faerie Fire (Feral) everytime they are up. I stack my Lacerate to 5 and refresh it everytime.
When they are all on CD I use Swipe to keep my Proc of Idol of Mutilation up at all times.

I don't know what to do, I have read everything on these forums and tried everything I can think of but I can't seem to hold threat. Is it just that the DPS is to good, and should hold back or what? I usually see my TPS to be between 6.5 and 7.5k according to Omen.

Any suggestions would be very helpful.

I spent to much time on this, and probably made it way more detailed that it had to be, but I am trying to do the best I can.

**Selverein** · 2009-08-28, 03:18 PM

Stacking more Stamina isn't the answer to your problem, really. Dodging is a good thing even if it ends up giving you less rage and I still advocate to stack Agi rather than Stam.

The biggest issue I see with your gear is that you are still using a Naxx 25 weapon while the rest of your gear is mostly Uld-level. If you're tanking in ToC, that means your weapon is effectively 2 tiers of content old and it simply can't do the job anymore (unless your DPS is poorly geared but that doesn't seem to be the case from what you say).

So, it may not be very good advice cause you're still relying on RNG but try to get one of these: Twisted Visage from XT 25, Tortured Earth from Vezax 10 Hardmode, Lotrafen from Vezax 25. I think a weapon upgrade alone would solve your problem, do not underestimate the awesomeness of Feral AP. In the meanwhile, if you have shitty luck in Uld you can try to get Marrowstrike from H ToC 5-man.

**Sunshine** · 2009-08-28, 03:23 PM