Possibly a new way to deal with hardcore/casual delima

[Mixon]

sadly tho the easier loots are to obtain the more and more selective the better guilds are getting. my guild dosent even let you try out unless you are in mostly ulduar 25 man gear nemore. we have had to many bad experiences with naxx 25 and ulduar 10 man geared players who one would assume knew how to raid joining and going to hardmodes with us and being very bad. we tend to only invite ppl who have been on other well known guilds and normally only allow weekend pugs from other major guilds in when we pug on our alts, its just easier this way since gear shown nothing about your raiding skill anymore. so in the end this new style is hurting casuals/and weekend raiders more than anything and the only real ones it is helping is the bads (they now can stand in dal in full 226 raid gear....doesn't do em much good since they don't raid but w/e). but at least there egos feel better. Everyone keeps talking about it hurting the high end raiders egos....but we already have the gear, we been wearing t8.5 and BiS gear for weeks or some even months now, it seems to be only the bads who egos are taking a beating. thoes who like to raid sometimes and are great players but don't have time to be in a full time raiding guild are the only ones its hurting. because they dont necessarly care about how great there gear is, its more the fun of raiding they like and being able to kill stuff, they just need gear good enogh to make that doable (this would easily be possible given my proposition). sadly if the only ppl left for you pug with are bads in good gear,your still not gonna be able to raid and kill stuff, and the good guild are not gonna be very willing to let you in there pugs even if you are in 226+, what i dont understand is: I dont pvp, so i dont really care if i get pvp or gear not, why do ppl who dont raid want raid gear so bad, if its not just so your ego can be bigger? ( if you raided you would already have the gear, and if your new to 80 then you need to run some of the easier raid first neways) if you grab these free loots from badges and VOA you "might" get into a raiding guild but as soon as you fuck up (and you will if you ahve little to no raiding exp, i fucked up all the time kara when i started and was still doing alot of learning my class on into SSC and TK) your will prolly be kicked from the guild and get a bad rep with most of the major raiding guild on your server, you might even become the running joke for your class. so in the end im not really seeing a good side of this other than bads who cant/dont raid are getting gear to not raid in. but feel better while the smash the meters with new 80s in 5 mans and talk crap in dal sporting there walmart Ulduar loots.

im at work typing fast so sry about spelling grammar and punctuation.

[jpwkeeper]

They shouldn't make loot this easy to obtain and let people skip so much content. New players just don't learn how to play when they can gear them selfs in one week.

Like when you are in a pug and people link their achievements from killing malygos, but in the mean while they still don't know what the hell they are doing:P. They just got the achievement because they were overgeared and got carried by people who actually do know how to play.

There should be another solution. I don't know if this is the right one.

They're not going to learn how to raid standing around outside of Naxx by themselves listening to the undead crickets either.

I didn't start playing WOW till BC dropped, so by the time I was 80 most of my guild (who also started a tad late) were well into Kara. I couldn't run until I geared, which left me trying to get groups for instances. With most of the guild busy raiding, that didn't happen at all, so I was forced to do battlegrounds to get any descent gear. That went on for 2 months, and by that time it was starting to get hard to get KARA groups together because everyone wanted to run ZA, so the gap just kept getting bigger and bigger between those with gear and those without.

So let's think ahead a bit. How many people are going to still be wanting to run Naxx when Icecrown is out? And without running Naxx how can alts and new recruits, who very well may be fine and experienced raiders, get the gear they need to help out with Icecrown? Seriously, the raiders are going to be spread out over 4 teirs of raiding, trying to gear toons at each level so they can help out. So an alt or new recruit is basically going to be S-O-L and it's time to just wait for the next expansion.

Basically Blizzard is trying to stop the bleeding now, making it accessible to people trying to gear up. You can get the Naxx/Ulduar/Argent runs when they're available, but when they're not you can still work towards getting something done. Between the occasional raid, heroic dailies, and BoE purple items, toons can still gear up with limited help.

[Mixon]

They're not going to learn how to raid standing around outside of Naxx by themselves listening to the undead crickets either.

I didn't start playing WOW till BC dropped, so by the time I was 80 most of my guild (who also started a tad late) were well into Kara. I couldn't run until I geared, which left me trying to get groups for instances. With most of the guild busy raiding, that didn't happen at all, so I was forced to do battlegrounds to get any descent gear. That went on for 2 months, and by that time it was starting to get hard to get KARA groups together because everyone wanted to run ZA, so the gap just kept getting bigger and bigger between those with gear and those without.

So let's think ahead a bit. How many people are going to still be wanting to run Naxx when Icecrown is out? And without running Naxx how can alts and new recruits, who very well may be fine and experienced raiders, get the gear they need to help out with Icecrown? Seriously, the raiders are going to be spread out over 4 teirs of raiding, trying to gear toons at each level so they can help out. So an alt or new recruit is basically going to be S-O-L and it's time to just wait for the next expansion.

Basically Blizzard is trying to stop the bleeding now, making it accessible to people trying to gear up. You can get the Naxx/Ulduar/Argent runs when they're available, but when they're not you can still work towards getting something done. Between the occasional raid, heroic dailies, and BoE purple items, toons can still gear up with limited help.

read my post it will answer all your questions

if you made it to 80 while the rest of your guild/server was in kara you are fucking pro!

but neways just giving them loot will not get them ready to handle hard raids. my option will allow them to run thru the content at an easier difficulty and a much faster pace allowing them to quickly close the gap and dew to the fact that it would be required, dew to attunement, it would be easy to find groups for...i never had a prob getting attunement groups for kara even on my super low pop server. oh yeah and ppl loved to farm the badges to get gems...and now heirloom gear.

read the whole post and see if you dont agree with me that 3.2 is going to make it even harder for ppl to get into a raiding guild and/or good pugs.

[Astray]

This change blizzard has made is FOR the raiders, not the casuals. The casuals benefit, but that is a side effect.

Finally, someone gets it. I thought i was the only one. I felt alone.

[Gilian]

They're not going to learn how to raid standing around outside of Naxx by themselves listening to the undead crickets either.

I didn't start playing WOW till BC dropped, so by the time I was 80 most of my guild (who also started a tad late) were well into Kara. I couldn't run until I geared, which left me trying to get groups for instances. With most of the guild busy raiding, that didn't happen at all, so I was forced to do battlegrounds to get any descent gear. That went on for 2 months, and by that time it was starting to get hard to get KARA groups together because everyone wanted to run ZA, so the gap just kept getting bigger and bigger between those with gear and those without.

So let's think ahead a bit. How many people are going to still be wanting to run Naxx when Icecrown is out? And without running Naxx how can alts and new recruits, who very well may be fine and experienced raiders, get the gear they need to help out with Icecrown? Seriously, the raiders are going to be spread out over 4 teirs of raiding, trying to gear toons at each level so they can help out. So an alt or new recruit is basically going to be S-O-L and it's time to just wait for the next expansion.

Basically Blizzard is trying to stop the bleeding now, making it accessible to people trying to gear up. You can get the Naxx/Ulduar/Argent runs when they're available, but when they're not you can still work towards getting something done. Between the occasional raid, heroic dailies, and BoE purple items, toons can still gear up with limited help.

Well this is wotlk now so TBC has nothing to do with it, but oke.

If it took you 2 months to gear yourself for kara and your whole guild was already done there when you still weren't geared then you are in the wrong guild my friend. And if these people were your friends then they could have helped you getting the gear.

You are also saying you wanted to have free gear so you can skip kara and go to ZA with your guild. You really think that's good?

I have had my share of noobs in ZA who thought they could clear it with almost no raiding experience. It's annoying. Please go do normal progress and start kara>ssc>tk and then come back. If you are unable to do that then maybe you have to try harder or admit that you are just a bad player.

p.s. Good guilds were looking for players all the time. They gear people with T5/T6 and then they leave. They were trying to close the gap, but noobs wouldn't let them.

"They're not going to learn how to raid standing around outside of Naxx by themselves listening to the undead crickets either."
You act like there are 0 pugs for naxx and you need insane gear to clear it. I was still wearing 3 pieces T6 and some blue items and i managed to gear myself to full valorous in 2,5 weeks with only pug groups. That's easy enough.

[Hekto]

i had to take it.