What is up with the new arena ratings?

[Thallid]

Ok so first of all... I SUCK AT ARENAS (I'm not really that bad). But my twos team iks at about 1150 and we can't really progress even though we are getting positive wins/losses. We won our first 3 games and got +3 +3 and +2. Then we lost to a Holy Pally/DK, -18. Why is this? It makes it impossible for our rating to progress. BTW we've done about 30ish and he are positive 4 wins and down 40 rating. Why is this?

[msb]

very simple dude
you are loosing to weak teams and winning against low ranking teams. Your MMR pretty much decides your internal ranking based on your performance in respective bracket.

[Thallid]

Edit: Misread post.
But then wats thew difference between low ranking and weak teams in ranks?

[Saikred]

If you read what he said a little closer you'd see where you've gone wrong with that last statement. The thing is you're losing to people who are a LOWER rating than you (IE they are worse) which is why you lose so many points.

The teams you're beating seem to be lower too if you're only getting a few points per arena.

[GamorKilrogg]

beating a team in less than a minute doesnt exactly mean they are bad. sometimes it means youre comp counters theirs completely, especially if you face a double dps team, you can usually kill one of them because of lack of healing, and not worry about losing in a 1 on 2 game.

[Thallid]

OK so i have deciphered that he is saying that we are only getting matched up with low ranking teams and therefore lose a lot and gain a little. If this is the case, then why?

[Krazen]

Nope, let me try to explain.
I play a pala/priest team (faceroll team), i got invited when he got the team at 1150 then:
the 1° team we face is at 1100 due to the bad last week (the last partner of the priest did 7-14), we win.
then the 2nd team is at 1150, we win.
here we go, we keep winning and the mm system put us in queue against higher team each time as we are still winning every team we face. after 10 game we havent lost one and we are at 1400.
next week we play again, last week we haven't lost one so also if we are at 1400 rating our mmr is much much higher, indeed we face team that have 1700 mmr.
having our team rating at 1400 and our mmr at 1700 means that:
1. if we lost against a 1700 team we lose few points becouse we are at 1400 (and also our mmr will be decreased a bit).
2. if we win against a 1700 team we win loads of points becouse we are at 1400 (and our mmr will be increased).

naturally that can be also the opposite:
if your team is at 1500 and you keep loosing against every team that is >1500 and win sometime against team that are <1300 that means that:
1. if you win against a 1300 team you take few points becouse you're higher then then as team rating.
2. if you loose you loose a lot of points becouse you are higher then them.
that start a circle where you keep been queued against lower team that beat you most of the time and so the mmr won't go up. the only chance to change that is playing like 20-30 game and win 75-80% of them.

[Flashbomba]

Lets assume your MMR (matchmaking rating) is, let's say 1100, based on your previous arena games. This does not have to be the same as your team rating (1150), but it will determine how many points you'll win/loose when meeting other teams.

You'll be meeting teams with different MMRs and even more varying team ratings (from close to 0 to maybe 1500+). This is random depending on how many teams are playing when you queue. Afaik it will try to match you up with a team as close to your MMR as possible, but that might not always be possible if no teams of equal MMR is playing.

Case 1:
You 1150 (1100 MMR) meet a team with 1500 (1350 MMR) rating and loose = you'll lose very little rating, probably less than 5, because their MMR is higher so they're "expected" to win.

Case 2:
You 1150 (1100 MMR) meet a team with 1500 (1350 MMR) rating and win = you'll gain quite a lot of rating, maybe 15-20 (guessing) because you're not expected to win, but by doing so you're rewarded a lot.

the same applies when you meet lower rated teams:

Case 3:
You 1150 (1100 MMR) meet a team with 100 (1000 MMR) rating and loose = they'll gain 47 rating because their team rating is so much lower than their MMR and you'll loose quite a bit as well, maybe 10-15 (guessing), because you were expected to win over that team.

Case 4:
You 1150 (1100 MMR) meet a team with 100 (1000 MMR) rating and win = they'll loose 0 rating because their team rating is so much lower than their MMR, but you'll only gain very little rating, probably 3 or something like that, because it's what was expected.

The thing is that your personal MMR will depend on your previous arena experience in all brackets (2s, 3s and 5s). Thats why some teams when they start out will have a MMR of maybe 1800, even though their team rating is 0. This will happen if all team members previously have gained high arena ratings for example. When they play they'll win 47 and loose 0 points until their team rating is closer to their MMR. Can't remember how close, but maybe within 100 or 150 rating.

Last example, Case 5:
You 1150 (1100 MMR) meet a team with 1125 (1100 MMR) and either team win = each team will probably loose/gain around 8-12 points because you've got equal MMR.

NB: My numbers might be a bit off what you'll see in-game, but it's just to illustrate the system. Hope it can help you out a bit. :-) I can't garantee that I'm 100% correct, but this is my understanding of the system at least. :-)

[rarwzs]

The new arena rating system suck so much..If the classes/combos where balance it would be a good system I think, but it is not atm..

[Powell]

The new arena rating system suck so much..If the classes/combos where balance it would be a good system I think, but it is not atm..

the system is great, the balance isnt

you get put up against teams of equal MMR to yours, or close to it.
the system thinks "his skill is rated at (example) 1000MMR, so you face a team of +- 1000MMR,

if you win, the system will think "his skill is rated for more, because he won to equally rated players" so your MMR is increased.

if you lose, the system will think "his skill is rated for less, because he loses to equally rated players" so your MMR is decreased.

the more you win, the higher your MMR gets, this is to prevent boosting people like they did in TBC.

example, you start at 0 rating, and you start with 1000MMR, you win, then you get 47 rating because your team rating is far lower then your MMR and the system wants you to get the same rating as your MMR, fighting equally rated/skilled players so that fight is fair, with exceptions of countercomps, and some setups have more then others.
if you lose, you lose 0 but your MMR gets decreased.

The more you win, the higher your MMR.
so for example if your MMR is at 2000 and your team rating is at 1000, you will keep winning 47 points until your around 1900 rating. aka, very close to your MMR.

if your MMR is 1100 and your team rating is 1100 you will gain little rating until you boost your MMR up, because the system wants your team/personal rating to be close or the same as your MMR so you meet equally skilled teams.

[Gilidor]

Correct me if im wrong, but if we start a new team, we get the 1000 MMR and 0 rating again right? and it will be a lot easier to sway our MMR with less overall games

Ive heard tidbits here and there of a "Ghost Rating" that is determined through gear quality and previous team/personal ratings in that bracket.
Is there any truth to this?

[Powell]

Correct me if im wrong, but if we start a new team, we get the 1000 MMR and 0 rating again right? and it will be a lot easier to sway our MMR with less overall games

Ive heard tidbits here and there of a "Ghost Rating" that is determined through gear quality and previous team/personal ratings in that bracket.
Is there any truth to this?

your MMR will be determend by you and your partners overall MMR
i had left my druid friends team after reaching 2050, because he quit /sadface
then i made a new team with a paladin and our MMR was at 1900 from the 1st game on.

the same with 3v3, i made a 3v3 after getting 2100 in 2v2 and our MMR was starting at +-1850

[chrion]

we had this problem last night, we went 20-9 but ended up with the same rank as when we started so we stopped. There were a few BS DK tree druid teams in the 1700's looking for easy cheesey wins with the dumb comp. Just stop and come back tommorro

[OblivionMage]

"Ghost Rating" that is determined through gear quality

Gear quality doesn't come into play - it all has to do with you and your teammates MMR (as was said above).


It is a very good system in theory, although it is certainly not without its share of flaws.