Enh HP - Simple Fix

[Drunkenfinn]

Copyed from my post on the EU Suggestions forum.

Hello there everyone!

I'm not quite sure if this idea has been posted before, and if it has I'm glad and I will therefore post it again!

As GC has allready said, shamans have a considerably lower health pool compared to other classes, atleast as far as melee classes go. I was thinking how to give us more HP in a way it would scale with gear and maybe have some synergy with our stats and talents.

Heres what I came up with:

Mental Fortitude (Tier-5)
Increases your Attack Power by 33/66/100% and your Stamina by 10/20/30% of your Intellect.

Basicly this is just revamping the old talent called Mental Dexterity into giving us a portion of our Intellect as Stamina in addittion to the Attack Power it now gives.

This way we would get a nice little 1400-1700hp boost depending on gear. Also it would only be available for Enhancement, since from what I've seen, every Resto and Elemental Shaman around has about 1k or more HP than I do. It just feels kinda weird that a Mail wearing melee character has less HP than a Cloth wearing ranged character when given equal gear.

Also, a notable thing about this change would be the fact that it would scale with raidbuffs (BoK). Also has a nice synergy with the Ancestral Knowledge talent.

Since getting more stamina in our gear wont happen due to ilvl issues this would be a nice way of getting that lil boost to our HP from Intellect!

I'd appereciate if someone could post this on the US Suggestions forum (unless someone has allready posted this or something similar ofc...) and please bump and comment on my post on the EU Suggestions forum at:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....219645&sid=1#0

[Thyrandel]

You do realize they're already buffing our health next patch, right?

[Crynx]

500 hitpoints is really a major health buff..
we'll still stay significantly below any other melee class and every other class except for mages

[tears]

yeah i was so disappointed to PTR "health-boost", ~16.7k went to a ~17.4k (and i have mining maxed)

[Drunkenfinn]

You do realize they're already buffing our health next patch, right?

Yeah I know that its getting buffed. It's just that in PvE gear (and PvP gear too) we're several thousand HP below most other melees. I myself for example am sitting at 15,9k hp unbuffed, which is quite pathetic considering I'm in T8 level gear. About 500 extra HP wont help much.

It just doesnt seem that fair that for example a leather wearing "glass cannon" class like Rogues have about 17,5-18,5k hp in PvE gear. We are melee too, and we wear a higher armor class and then there is the fact that we dont have any OH SHT buttons like Vanish, Clos or Iceblock. We have the lowest HP and no survival CDs apart from Shamanistic Rage, which is a bit lackluster, alltho it'll be a lil better with the 1min CD in 3.2.

[Zhabin]

I'm at 22k hp as both enh and resto (I think about 200 less in resto set/spec) with 5/5 Toughness and Mining (+50 stamina) and no other stamina buffs with furious/deadly mix. When I get full furious gear and this 540'ish health buff, I'll have somewhere around 24.5k hp. I don't recall seeing other classes without any stamina buffs getting much higher than that in PvP.

Our health is still crap in PvE, but raid buffed comes out to like 23k so it's fine really.

[Rehea]

that talent sounds like an awesome idea,the 500 hp is not enough tbh, like the above poster said atm rogues have around 2k hp more then us in equal gear, yet they have feint for 50 % less aoe dmg, clos, vanish etc and then ret paladins are most likely at 4k+ hp then us in equal gear

[Drunkenfinn]

I'm at 22k hp as both enh and resto (I think about 200 less in resto set/spec) with 5/5 Toughness and Mining (+50 stamina) and no other stamina buffs with furious/deadly mix. When I get full furious gear and this 540'ish health buff, I'll have somewhere around 24.5k hp. I don't recall seeing other classes without any stamina buffs getting much higher than that in PvP.

Our health is still crap in PvE, but raid buffed comes out to like 23k so it's fine really.

Yeah you've got as much or a wee bit more than a full PvP geared rogue and and less than half PvP/PvE geared warriors/paladins/DKs with FULL PvP gear and a 5 POINT Stamina-talent + mining. And now your damage is shit too due to PvP gear lackin offensive stats we scale so well with. And prolly +40stam on bracers too.

I'm not trying to be overdramatic or QQ more than needed, but an extra 1500hp from this talent would help a lot in the long run. Maybe you wouldnt have to spec 5 points into stamina in our allready oh so bloated enhancemetn tree even to be on par/slightly behind.

And I'm 22k raidbuffed

[Zhabin]

Yeah you've got as much or a wee bit more than a full PvP geared rogue and and less than half PvP/PvE geared warriors/paladins/DKs with FULL PvP gear and a 5 POINT Stamina-talent + mining. And now your damage is shit too due to PvP gear lackin offensive stats we scale so well with. And prolly +40stam on bracers too.

I'm not trying to be overdramatic or QQ more than needed, but an extra 1500hp from this talent would help a lot in the long run. Maybe you wouldnt have to spec 5 points into stamina in our allready oh so bloated enhancemetn tree even to be on par/slightly behind.

And I'm 22k raidbuffed

I need to correct and add in some information from my last post.

My enhancement set consists of 4 PvE items (naxx10-25 equivalent), 6 Furious, 2 Hateful, 2 Deadly items (Not including trinkets/totem since they have no stamina).

I have 21885 HP With 5/5 Toughness, +50stam from Mining, AND NO OTHER STAMINA BUFFS (as you claimed I probably have +40 stam to bracers, though I do have Tuskarr's Vitality to boots, +15 stamina which probably everyone has). If I were to upgrade to full furious gear I would raise 254 stamina from the gear alone. +10% of that (25.4, round to 25) and then an additional ~500 (a little more) from the 7% base health increase coming in patch 3.2 which should leave me at:

25225 UNBUFFED Health. Keeping in mind that is with Full S6 gear (T1 Furious weapons also which is 20 less stamina than T2)

Our health is not as bad as people make it out to be. it certainly is less than other classes, but I don't feel its something to complain about.

[Kalioshas]

In pvp gear I got 403int, so with this talent I'd get 120,9stam unbuffed(don't think it will round up to 121, so lets say its 120), that's 1,2k hp- nothing really exciting, but combined with 3.2 incoming +7% to base hp(for tauren thats like what?600-700 iirc) would help us survive 1-2 extra hits, which is always very welcome Or I might even be able of getting rid some of stam gems to increase my very puny AP pool in pvp gear.

Pve wise it is really needed, I'm currently at 16,5k-ish unbuffed, cant remmember how high it goes with buffs, but doing hard modes in 25 there is no surprise when you get killed in a eyeblink. Simple example is VoA- trash at the start and leading towards Archavon- on my DK im not even bothered to move out of their whirl thingie-does 70% of my hp and I get uphealed insta,on shaman I remember at earlier stages getting oneshotted by that.Ofc,that should be avoided by moving out, so and Emalon's nova, but why other classes have luxury of surviving such aoe and we don't? Since mail is itemized for hunters, who are ranged and don't need tons of hp, this talent looks like a great idea to bring us somewhere close to other melee hp in raids making life easier both for us and healers.At today's 25Freya hard mode I was at below 10% countless times, that's the only times I've not regret of chosing tauren long long ago.

[tremulant]

Our health is not as bad as people make it out to be. it certainly is less than other classes, but I don't feel its something to complain about.

it's not the class, it's the gear
the pve gear.

warrior/dk/ret DPS legs from t9 ilvl258 has 174 stamina on them,
rogues have 153 stamina,
enh shaman ilvl 258 legs have 80 stamina.

the problem is that plate melee (and rogues/feral to a lesser extent) are balanced around the fact that a larger portion of item budget goes to stamina, and even though they get less budget for dps stats they're still balanced to do the dps they should be doing to be at the spot blizz wants them on the damage meters.
Enh dps is balanced around having most of it's item budget going towards dps stats (even int) with barely anything left for stamina.

Without changing our Tier sets item budget, we need less budget on dps stats, more budget towards stamina and a re-balancing of our talents and coefficients to compensate for the stat loss.


another, possibly easier solution, would be to roll the stamina talent in to a dps talent so that it's part of the basic pve build, like "Veteran of the Third War".

[Zhabin]

it's not the class, it's the gear
the pve gear.

warrior/dk/ret DPS legs from t9 ilvl258 has 174 stamina on them,
rogues have 153 stamina,
enh shaman ilvl 258 legs have 80 stamina.

the problem is that plate melee (and rogues/feral to a lesser extent) are balanced around the fact that a larger portion of item budget goes to stamina, and even though they get less budget for dps stats they're still balanced to do the dps they should be doing to be at the spot blizz wants them on the damage meters.
Enh dps is balanced around having most of it's item budget going towards dps stats (even int) with barely anything left for stamina.

Without changing our Tier sets item budget, we need less budget on dps stats, more budget towards stamina and a re-balancing of our talents and coefficients to compensate for the stat loss.


another, possibly easier solution, would be to roll the stamina talent in to a dps talent so that it's part of the basic pve build, like "Veteran of the Third War".

I see, I didn't factor in the Stamina difference in their PvE gear vs ours. That is definitely a problem.

[Drunkenfinn]

I need to correct and add in some information from my last post.

My enhancement set consists of 4 PvE items (naxx10-25 equivalent), 6 Furious, 2 Hateful, 2 Deadly items (Not including trinkets/totem since they have no stamina).

I have 21885 HP With 5/5 Toughness, +50stam from Mining, AND NO OTHER STAMINA BUFFS (as you claimed I probably have +40 stam to bracers, though I do have Tuskarr's Vitality to boots, +15 stamina which probably everyone has).  If I were to upgrade to full furious gear I would raise 254 stamina from the gear alone.  +10% of that (25.4, round to 25) and then an additional ~500 (a little more) from the 7% base health increase coming in patch 3.2 which should leave me at:

25225 UNBUFFED Health.  Keeping in mind that is with Full S6 gear (T1 Furious weapons also which is 20 less stamina than T2)

Our health is not as bad as people make it out to be.  it certainly is less than other classes, but I don't feel its something to complain about.

Yeah we can get a reasonable amount of HP in full PvP gear. But even with mining and toughness a Rogue or a Feral Kitty would have the same HP in full S6 item-set without really having to spec into "full-survivability/stamina"-talent. And I'd recon a DK or a Warrior would have approx 30k in full S6, but thats ok since they're plate.
And as I said in my previous post, our DPS gets gimped more in PvP gear than most other classes cause of the way we scale

I know its not a HUGE issue, it just seems a tad bit unfair.

Putting that aside, as some people have allready stated the real problem is the PvE gear. The items are budgeted for offensive stats to keep our DPS on par with others. This means that due to ilvl restrictions they cant really just add more stamina to the gear. Atleast this talent and the 3.2 7% change would get rid of those annoying 500-1500 damage Overkill deaths, which atleast for me happen quite often during hardmodes.

If someone could please post this to the US Suggestions/Shaman forums I'd appereciate it.

[Omanley]

nice idea

increases your Attack Power by 33/66/100% and your Stamina by 10/20/30% of your Intellect.

make that 15/30/45% though, i´d say.

[Majika]

I'm sorry but the "they wear plate" line people use doesn't cut it. By that logic we should be second-best hp with mail but instead our hp are relegated to something closer to the clothies. There is simply no logical reason why shamans have such low hp and the measly buff they are giving isn't enough. They should at least bring us up to the level of rogues or hunters without having to spend talent points or give us some other benefit attached to those talent points so there is some other reason to take them.

Majika

[Drunkenfinn]

I'm sorry but the "they wear plate" line people use doesn't cut it. By that logic we should be second-best hp with mail but instead our hp are relegated to something closer to the clothies. There is simply no logical reason why shamans have such low hp and the measly buff they are giving isn't enough. They should at least bring us up to the level of rogues or hunters without having to spend talent points or give us some other benefit attached to those talent points so there is some other reason to take them.

Majika

Well this talent would bring us a nice little boost in our HP to get us on par with rogues and huntters. And it would do it without us needing to spend unnecessary talent points into talents like Toughness. You are taking this talent now as it is, this change wouldnt affect us at all in any other way than giving us that 1500 extra HP to balance things out a bit.

[majestic]

I need to correct and add in some information from my last post.

My enhancement set consists of 4 PvE items (naxx10-25 equivalent), 6 Furious, 2 Hateful, 2 Deadly items (Not including trinkets/totem since they have no stamina).

I have 21885 HP With 5/5 Toughness, +50stam from Mining, AND NO OTHER STAMINA BUFFS (as you claimed I probably have +40 stam to bracers, though I do have Tuskarr's Vitality to boots, +15 stamina which probably everyone has). If I were to upgrade to full furious gear I would raise 254 stamina from the gear alone. +10% of that (25.4, round to 25) and then an additional ~500 (a little more) from the 7% base health increase coming in patch 3.2 which should leave me at:

25225 UNBUFFED Health. Keeping in mind that is with Full S6 gear (T1 Furious weapons also which is 20 less stamina than T2)

Our health is not as bad as people make it out to be. it certainly is less than other classes, but I don't feel its something to complain about.

My shaman (0/20/51 resto) is sitting on almost 26 k live self buffed, but then i have mining maxed, enchanting stam enchants on rings, tuskars, 40stam to bracers , Stam/resil gems or stam Sp , or just 24 stam in every slot not taken by 2x20 Spell pen gems etc and i still have only as much Hp's as a warrior/dk/paladin that gems and enchants for pure offensive stats........... 5 talents + full gems/enchants and 2 prof just to have equal Hp's to plate seems pretty bull shit to me.

[Debased]

My shaman (0/20/51 resto) is sitting on almost 26 k live self buffed, but then i have mining maxed, enchanting stam enchants on rings, tuskars, 40stam to bracers , Stam/resil gems or stam Sp , or just 24 stam in every slot not taken by 2x20 Spell pen gems etc and i still have only as much Hp's as a warrior/dk/paladin that gems and enchants for pure offensive stats........... 5 talents + full gems/enchants and 2 prof just to have equal Hp's to plate seems pretty bull shit to me.

I hope this is for pvp.

[Fenrir The Phantom]

give us 5k more hp ill be happy

[Masterec]

As the CG have allready said, shamans have a considerably lower health pool compared to other classes, atleast as far as melee classes go. I was thinking how to give us more HP in a way it would scale with gear and maybe have some synergy with our stats and talents.

Who is Crawler Ghost?