Blood DK's: A better Runic Dump

[skaarrj]

Death Coil kinda stinks. Especially in pvp. It would be nice if there was a deep talent in blood that would allow death coil to proc a bleed like effect that did additional damage.

[Dr.VollKornBrot]

Thats what the new Unholy Bligth does.

[Brightwings]

Too bad you won't have UB as Blood. :

And no, death coil does not stink.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...&version=10128

[Sidonis]

Death Coil kinda stinks. Especially in pvp. It would be nice if there was a deep talent in blood that would allow death coil to proc a bleed like effect that did additional damage.

I find it hard to believe you never have enough of your runes on cooldown to dish out a few death coils. Furthermore, you're always going to want 20 RP available anyways for Icebound Fortitude, 20 available for Anti-Magic Shell, and if you don't have it talented to be free of cost, 20 available for Mind Freezes. That's a base of 40-60 RP you always want available, meaning you're not going to have "excess" to burn on Death Coils until 80 or 100 RP anyways.

[elseagoat]

Has anyone here actually played a DK? Blood has a terrible runic power dump in the form of an unbuffed Death Coil.

Even in PvE I find higher DPS when I sit at the RP cap for long periods (as long as my runes are coming up in sync with the GCD) for larger Death Strikes, because runic dumping as Blood is so terrible, and thats with a PvE spec that includes Dark Death glyph and Morbidity.

In PvP, you have neither Dark Death nor Morbidity, I'm sitting in mostly furious and my Death Coils hit for just about 1k on the PTR. That's pathetic, and its one of the reasons why Blood is not half as good as Unholy or Frost in PvP. Being able to get that killing blow on a target that just peeled out of melee range is critical, and Frost and Unholy are capable of it, Blood often times is not.


Another issue is that Death Coil is rather bland for Blood. Personally, I would like to see some sort of Bleed that gives a % chance per tick to refresh a Blood Rune, or when you attack a target that is bleeding with the effect eh cooldown of that Blood Rune is reduced 20%, ect ect. Or just an instant ranged attack that causes direct Bleed damage (unmitigated, buffed with Blood talents preferably, similar to the initial damage of the cat form Rake which is counted as unmitigated physical damage). Just anything to get Blood some more armor penetrating attacks and more ranged damage, I would love to see this spec in arena.

[Nangz]

I agree a bit at the concept but seeing how we can proc a free one ( which is cool) can get 30% increase in talents and a glyph mine hits for 4k crits without the sigil which is like 40% of my heart strike damage per strike

but depending on how well the new ub works might go 50/00/21 not 51/00/20

[elseagoat]

Sudden Doom is a cool talent and adds a ton of burst at nice times, but as an RP dump deathcoil is really lackluster.

[Shiira]

Death coil is bad because heart strike and death strike are so good.

If death coil also did high damage then no dk would ever spec anything else for pve.

[malkara]

I thought pve blood had 1 ish second per 46 seconds of ration free?

I really don't think blood needs a runic dump, as you don't have the time anyway.

[skaarrj]

I'm glad some people see what I'm talking about. It lets me know my views are not completely unfounded. I'm not asking for an entirely new attack. We already have a bunch of cooldowns to manage, and we use a good amount of abilities. I think the solution is to buff death coil for blood in a way that unholy or frost wouldnt want to pick it up.

I think having a death coil added into Might of Mograin, or adding in a deep talent that buffs death coils damage (by the amount of diseases on a target) would be great.

[Cerberuz]

Grats on being dumb and not taking DRW.

Grats on being dumb and not taking DRW.

DRW is ALWAYS more DPS than Unholy blight if used properly. Factual and indisputable. Please don't try to discuss this, you're both 100% wrong and no Blood build should ever have UB, on live or on the PTR.

/nod

[elseagoat]

Grats on being dumb and not taking DRW.

There are reports on the PTR that UB is out-damaging DRW in timespans where DRW is used 2 or fewer times. This would be due to Death Coil being about 15 to 20 something percent of Blood's DPS, thanks to Sudden Doom. I myself have noticed a large increase in DPS using UB over DRW on the PTR, though, I do have very little ArPen, so this may be a contributing factor. Consider that DRW is further nerfed on the PTR, it lasts a shorter duration that live with the new fixed cost, and that DRW is also rather dependant on uncontrollable factors in the fight (such as when your passive trinkets proc, Bloodlust, ect) for maximum DPS while UB is a constant factor.

Hopefully DRW does not become one of those cool talents that is never taken, I rather like the ability as it requires a lot of attentiveness to use properly and is extremely unique as far as DPS cooldowns go. So hopefully you are right. Also, my tests were done when UB was 30%, not 20%, I haven't tested since the change.

Holy crap what a stupid post. Blood DPS takes morbility and uses the Dark Death glyph. This results in 5-6k Death coil crits in raid environments. Have YOU ever played a DK beyond shitty naxx pugs? What a whole mess of nothing you just provided. Blood HAS to use death coils to achieve their optimal DPS, you're a complete idiot.

You DO NOT do more DPS in PVE by ignoring Death Coils. Your death strike glyph caps at 25 RP you fool. So you just constantly waste 75 RP and choose to sit and wait for rune cooldowns? Wow, you're just so damn bad, please never try to offer input around here ever again.

I have raided up to General in Uld 25, until I recently Gquit my raiding guild and decided to focus on school, casual arenas (hoping for shoulders soon) and leveling alts. I rock shitty Naxx gear, maybe two pieces of uld gear and some generic conquest badge gear, and PvP pieces (I use the boots, furious weapon, and some other slots in PvE because I have not come across a better PvE piece for that slot yet, I am undergeared). I pull about 4k-4.5k DPS depending on the fight, though on fights like Thorim I obviously do a bit less, around 3.6k because I get stuck in the arena using lol DnD and Blood Boil as Blood spec trying to compete with Fan of Knives spamming full Uld geared Rogues.

Take your worthless nerd rage shit talking elsewhere, you make yourself look like an all star loser with nothing better to do than jack up your ego talking trash about something you only read about on a website. Don't you have acne cream to be applying to your face or something.

Anyways, I am not wasting anything by opting to sit at the RP cap for a few seconds longer when runes come up. If I get a string of runes coming up as the GCD comes up (in sync) then using those runes within 2 seconds of them coming up causes them to only go on cooldown for 8 seconds instead of 10. I never have any wasted GCD (meaning I press a button every 1.5 seconds during a fight unless I get Slag potted or something, or I have to swap targets and except at the start of the fight when I do IT PS HS HS DS Ghoul DC *empty GCD* DS HS HS) so, with that being true with the rotation I currently use, please tell me the benefit of ensuring that I do not overcap RP, spending a GCD for a 3-4k Deathcoil, when I could instead spend that GCD on a rune ability that constitutes a higher % of my DPS no matter what rotation you use.

Getting out as many deathcoils in a 4 minute fight as possible isn't how you max DPS as Blood, but getting out as many of the ability that will ALWAYS constitute the HIGHEST % of ANY BLOOD ROTATION's DPS IS. What ability is that? Heart Strike. That, and maximizing your DRW usage.

So suck it you moron. Simple logic results in higher DPS, not mindlessly sticking to some rotation you read theorycrafted on EJ. Nobody uses a dead on rotation anyways, all DKs must adapt as there is always some influence in a fight such as a sudden boss movement that will cause you to miss a GCD on a melee ability thus having to refresh diseases before you thought or having extra runes which may shift your rotation. DKs are not TTW FFB Mages, you actually have to consider what runes are up and what order your runes will come up in the future and attack accordingly to max DPS, not follow some retarded generic "rotation" that people nut their panties over these days.

Oh, and also, you can't read. Where did I say that PvE Blood DKs do not use Morbidity or Glyph of Dark Death. In fact I implied that they do. In PVP HOWEVER, Blood likely will not (unless Glyph of Death Strike or DRW is subbed for it, which would be retarded imo considering the amount of burst both of those glyphs give you) resulting in absolutely crap ranged and armor penetrating damage output in PvP, one of the reasons Frost and Unholy simply out preform in arenas.

[elseagoat]

Sorry, but your joke DPS and disgustingly horrible Thorim rotation proves that you are indeed a joke.

Blood DK are some of the top DPS in the game for thorim arena. Diseaseless rotations and NO DnD at all is how you perform 7k+ DPS in Thorim Arena.

I do 6k+ on almost every fight in Ulduar dropping only as low as 5.5 on some fights. Sorry, but your logic and reasoning is flawed, you are a total nitwit for not using death coil to dump RP, and there is nothing you can say to argue that.

If you perform a Blood rotation properly you ALWAYS have time for at least 1 death coil between every rotation. When you learn how to do more than a pathetic 4.5k DPS, you can speak with such arrogance. Til then, you're a clueless moron who has no credibility with trying to argue these things.

Wow dude that was fast, have you been checking back in this thread for the past 2 hours to see if I would reply?

You clearly didn't read anything I just said either. But DAMN you back up your post with such well thought out arguments and points I MUST AGREE WITH YOU.

WHERE did I say I never had time for a Death Coil in between rotations? I usually average about 1.3 Death Coils per 6 Runes used. What this means, is that after I do a 4 Heart Strike rotation, I have used so many GCDs that my runes have started to come up before I could dump that second death coil. This leads to accumulation of RP which is good for one reason. DRW. I will never go "OH CRAP IM AT FULL RP" and start spamming deathcoils when I have two death two blood runes up (part two of blood's "rotation" lulz), have just death striked, have enough disease time left for those four globals, and death coiling would mean I would have to spend those two death runes on disease applications rather than heart strikes. Thats just f-ing retarded, like you.

Breaking a "6 rune use" combo of abilities to dump your runic power because you are at the cap is retarded for Blood, because if you don't it wont matter because your rotation will not suffer and you will STILL not have "empty" global cooldowns. It matters for Frost and Unholy, because NOT dumping RP when you are at the cap means that later in your rotation, you will have "empty" global cooldowns.

This is because frost and unholy use FU attacks as their primary Rune damage, While Blood uses HS, which consumes half the runes that SS and OB consume resulting in more GCDs spent on Rune abilities and therefore room to sit at the RP cap while in the middle of a rotation to complete that rotation without resulting in an "Oh crap I have no runes or RP to use now I have to sit for 2 seconds auto attacking" moment down the road.





But in all honesty I don't actually expect you to read all of that and much less comprehend it. Inc pale white crater faced ginger kid nerd rage.

[Raptorg]

Blood was designed to have a weak RP dump.

Frost was designed to have a high damage RP dump.


It's fine, Blizzard is aware a blood DK's deathcoil is weaker than a frost DKs frost strike.
Because they designed the specs to be this way.

I can't speak for Unholy, but their DCs hit pretty hard, so I figure they were designed to have harder hitting DCs, just not as hard as frost DKs since their scourge strike hits, or should hit harder than Obliterate. <-- This needs confirming.

[elseagoat]

DS HS HS HS HS thats 7.5 seconds of GCD. The first two runes are used at the start of that 7.5 second period, and assuming you are already into your rotation they are cooling off at 8 second intervals. That is also 55 Runic Power generated.

This means there is a 0.5 second "free" window between when you first start that rotation and when you start the next rotation for you to dump RP. Casting one Death Coil results in the GCD finishing exactly 1 second after those runes from that first Death Strike finish their CD. Casting a second DC results in the GCD finishing 2.5 seconds after those first two runes come off cooldown, RESETTING thier next cooldown to 10 seconds, and LOWERING the number of heart strikes or death strikes you can use those runes for, over the course of a fight.

So, you will only be casting max 1 DC per 6 rune use, meaning you will accumulate 15 RP each rotation + dump. That means in 6.66 full rotations after the start of the fight or following a DRW, you will be capped, and every 2.66 rotations after that, you will be capped again. Those decimals indicate you will cap out in the middle of your six rune rotation, not at the end.

Find error in that, and I will admit my fault. If you cant, then please make me understand why it is more important to cast as many death coils as possible during a fight than to cast as many heart strikes, when death coils are third or fourth in recounts list of highest DPS contributing abilities and heart strike is first.

Or you could make a total dick out of yourself again and brag your penis up to a massive 4 inches, but offer no insight as to WHY you are right and I am wrong.

[elseagoat]

Oh, and lets not forget, lets say the boss peaces out during some gimmick phase or something, lets say XT drops his heart, and you have to apply diseases to it and you have 4 blood (two of which are death) runes coming up. That's a whopping 9 seconds of GCD, meaning after you do IT PS HS HS HS HS, your runes are already coming off their CD's 0.5 seconds before you finish that last GCD. No room for a Death Coil. Or you could argue that you should just pestilence, but then you get into a Glyph of Disease type of argument.

Because, you know, raid bosses are designed as unique encounters where you don't necessarily get full uptime on a single target, like you would on a target dummy. Latency also helps back my point that there will sometimes be occasions where you will complete a 6 rune rotation and be able to start your next 6 rune rotation right when the GCD falls off, leaving no room for dumps.

Unless of course you think deathcoil is your hardest hitting ability as Blood and you should make sure not to waste a drop of RP so you can jizz out as many as you can all over the boss for max dps.

[RMJ]

Sorry, but your joke DPS and disgustingly horrible Thorim rotation proves that you are indeed a joke.

Blood DK are some of the top DPS in the game for thorim arena. Diseaseless rotations and NO DnD at all is how you perform 7k+ DPS in Thorim Arena.

I do 6k+ on almost every fight in Ulduar dropping only as low as 5.5 on some fights. Sorry, but your logic and reasoning is flawed, you are a total nitwit for not using death coil to dump RP, and there is nothing you can say to argue that.

If you perform a Blood rotation properly you ALWAYS have time for at least 1 death coil between every rotation. When you learn how to do more than a pathetic 4.5k DPS, you can speak with such arrogance. Til then, you're a clueless moron who has no credibility with trying to argue these things.

You're bad at WoW. You don't play a Blood DK properly. You never made it beyond General in 25 cause you're deadweight and were being carried. You're terrible in every way imaginable and it is downright hilarious watching you try to make arguments when ANY Blood DK who has any clue what hes talking about knows everything you're saying is dead wrong.

Link to armory please, at atleast a few wws

thanks

[elseagoat]

Link to armory please, at atleast a few wws

thanks

He is too busy trying to find new ways to phrase "You are doing Naxx level DPS in Naxx gear." In a way that I might actually find offensive, rather than an obvious statement that he is wasting his time on.

[nobanme]

IT > PS > DS > HS > HS > Raise Ghoul (first rotation) / DC (second rotation)
DS > HS > HS > HS > HS > DC > DC

Thats what i normally do.

I have plenty of time to hit 2 deathcoils at the end in this rotation, the second death coil hits just as my diseases drop off.
Dont really see how anyone can be doing it any different tbh.

And yea, DnD and BB spam is useless at Thorim arena.
You should be doing diseaseless death strikes and heart strikes for max dps.

In fact, unless theres a HUGE amount of mobs, you should never be using Blood Boil and DnD for Blood AoE EVER. Heart strike is much more dps.

edit - i posted this before i saw Dakhdoun's post, and we have written almost identical rotations (he just inserted blood tap, i use mine a bit different from him)

[elseagoat]

0.0 - Icy Touch
1.5 - Plague Strike
3 - Death Strike
4.5 - heart strike
6 - heart strike
7.5 - death coil
9 - Blood tap + heart strike

35 RP carry over

10.5 - Death Strike (Worth the weake
12 - heart strike
13.5 - heart strike
15 - heart strike
16.5 - heart strike to bring you to 100 RP
18 - death coil
19.5 - death coil

And repeat. Yes, its worth losing 1 sec on your rune cooldown to get the extra potential 5-6k death coil. If you think otherwise you're a dope. You typicially replace the 18 second death coil with dancing rune weap and open up with a quick bloodtap+heart strike to get RP back up for death strike.

You NEED to use death coils between rotations to achieve optimal DPS. I don't know why you argue this when your DPS is so far from optimal.

I never said I didn't use 1 DC between each rotation, however I outlined reason's why I MAY not do so, such as in the case of XT dropping his heart, where I would start up my new rotation instead of dumping a DC.

I simply said, in rare situations that may arise where my runes start coming up when the GCD of my last rotation (not dump) finishes, I will start that rotation instead of avoiding being capped, and when I go through my rotation I will not break a 6 rune use combo to cast a Deathcoil if I hit the cap.

I demonstrated why in my previous two posts outlining a generic rotation for Blood over the course of a fight. You outlined the occurance of two six rune combos with an extra 1 minute cooldown, which is not something that occurs over the duration of a fight. In fact, what you demonstrated was only the starting rotation for a fight to help boost you towards the RP cap right at the beginning.

You did not disprove anything I said with what you posted. In fact, what you posted had almost nothing to do with what I said.

I demonstrated how you may hit the RP cap in the middle of using your six runes as they come off cooldown, and provided my logic as to why I would not stop IN THE MIDDLE of that six rune rotation to cast a deathcoil to get away from the RP cap. This means I would not do something like... *start of six rune combo* IT PS DS Deathcoil HS HS *end of six rune combo*

Unlike Unholy, where I would because the rune rotation uses far fewer GCDs and is much more skewed.