40man Raiding possibly returning to WoW?

[Aerion]

A lot of you may already have heard rumors about 40-man raid dungeons returning to WoW and I'm here to sum up few of those rumors.

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On a non related sidenote, I would also like to point out that the old Emerald Dream maps that have been in the game files for years have been slightly updated throughout the 3.2, and in the Build 10072 of the PTRs the Map.dbc file with some of the settings for each zone was updated to make it a 40 Players max zone.

Now this might indicate numerous things or pretty much nothing at all. It might be a new 40man Battleground for the next expansion or it might indeed indicate a possibility to play 3rd variation of dungeon difficulties, the so called "Epic" difficulty.

I personally like this idea a lot, but I also doubt it a little. Lately Blizzard has dedicated its time more and more on "a brand new franchise" - The next big MMO and even though WoW and this "new MMO" have a whole different teams working on them, some of the best game designers have been relocated on developing "the new franchise". Now I'm not saying blizzard is running out of staff when it comes to WoW developing team, but what i am saying is: "Why would they put so much time and effort on remaking something that was already removed in past, now that they even seem to struggle with a lot of easier things?"

/script SetDungeonDifficulty(3);

It will set ur dungeon difficulty to Epic, you can't enter any dungeons this way though, because it will say that there is no Epic mode available for that instance.

Now this feature has been there for ages, but I though it would be worth to mention. This quote from MMOwned hints that Blizzard may have been planning this 40man difficulty way longer than most of us though. Does this post confirm anything though? - Hardly.I think it's just something Blizzard though they might implement in game later.


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Here's a few things how I think reviving of 40man raids will affect to the game:


Bad Effects:

• Possibly more players in instances at one time => Causing more lag and realm stability issues...
• Making raiding more complex and a lot more organized approach is most likely needed
• To compete for 40man loot (The best gear available) guilds must grow bigger causing:
  • Large guilds to bloat
  • Medium guilds to fade away
  • Small guilds to become unable to grow that much bigger

• Affects to PvP => Even better items against loot from PvP
• "Fail Factor" rises => More players in raids gives more room for individual failures
• Low populated realms will suffer and more character transfers will occur
• Putting a 40man raid together will cause guild leaders bang their head on a wall
• Constructing bunch of working boss fights for 40man difficulty will demand miracles from Blizzard

Good Effects:

• Nothing says EPIC more than massive Old school 40man fight
• Raids being more complex might give a friendly boost to most hardcore guilds
• Gives PvE players something New and something Old in one package
• Gives boss fights a lot more variation making them more interesting and fun
• Might create a bunch of new outdoor PvP areas and Battlefields in front of instance areas (Blackrock Mountain, Silithus)
• Now who wouldn't like a piece of Old school gaming coming back in game?

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I'd like to sum it up with this video: "How to coordinate and manage a 40man raid perfectly"

[Bikiniwax]

I believe Blizz said that they would no-longer make 40-man raids so I doubt it.

And, god I hope not.

[Taurentony]

No.
It's not casual friendly and goes against Blizzard casual friendly theme they got going on.

[Rezzyk]

When I read the 40 man limit for the Emerald Dream files the first thing that popped in my head was that Blizz is alpha testing the files and doesn't want more than 40 people in each zone for fear of crashing.

I might be completely crazy with that idea though.

[WInddu]

They will not be more people in instances. They will be less group with more people, which will be pretty much the same that what is happening now.

I really hope that they put that back cause I never experienced Vanilla raiding and it could be a new experience.

But I don't think that they are going to put 40 men back or why would they have stop it before.

Winddu

PS: Sorry for my bad english.

[Poring]

As you might know, with 3.2 coming, "Heroic" does not mean "25" for raids anymore, but simply a harder version, and 10/25 is not chosen by difficulty anymore, so no.

[Teebu]

Here's a good effect: More players in one instance = less instances used. Less instances used = less chance for "Additional instances cannot be loaded" to take place.

[Aerion]

When I read the 40 man limit for the Emerald Dream files the first thing that popped in my head was that Blizz is alpha testing the files and doesn't want more than 40 people in each zone for fear of crashing.

I might be completely crazy with that idea though.

Possibly yeah, but i doubt they would have set it to exactly 40 unless it's a coincidence.

I don't really know their policy in testing the features they implementin game, but they should really do these "Wednesday night mania" kinda test where they just stuff 5000 people in a single instance and see if they can do anything with the lag . :P

[Nirron]

Well if they add a few more classes there will be a need for space for them.
So I can see 10mans turning into 15mans and 25mans to 30mans.

[Aerion]

Here's a good effect: More players in one instance = less instances used. Less instances used = less chance for "Additional instances cannot be loaded" to take place.

Indeed. In my opinion they should just buy more hardware. :P

[Mitsa]

No.
It's not casual friendly and goes against Blizzard casual friendly theme they got going on.

This

[Aerion]

Well if they add a few more classes there will be a need for space for them.
So I can see 10mans turning into 15mans and 25mans to 30mans.

It seems to me that they are quite slow on making new classes, but few new races ain't that much of an issue.

Though if few totally new classes were added there might be raids where you just don't have that class with you whose Tier items drop for example.

[fattyboomkin]

They won't.its gonna have really bad effects.

[Jadè]

40man raids are bad. As a tank, I am not busting my nuts for the 45% that will sit in the back with their thumbs up their asses.

[DocQuantum]

Another possibility is that it will be similar to how Wintergrasp will be, where it's an "active combat zone" with limited numbers of troops on each side. Like Wintergrasp, it'd be sort of a cross between a battleground and a "normal" zone.

[Branny]

i wouldn't mind it. I enjoyed it like Aq40 as lvl 60 it was challenging and hard but fun with 40 people. I loved it. But if it caused problems and challanges to do other things and too lag but be fun even 35 man would be cool

[ZachPruckowski]

It could also be a third level of difficulty for 5-man instances. Right now we have normal 5-mans, and Heroic 5-mans. Epic 5-mans could be one of four things:

1) Older dungeons (Vanilla, TBC, WotLK) that are re-tuned to lvl 90. So something like Hellfire Ramparts would have normal (lvl 61), heroic (lvl 70), and epic (lvl 90) difficulties. This epic difficulty could somehow float with the level cap.

2) A "hard mode" for Heroic 5-mans. Right now, Heroics have achievements that can make them slightly harder (Glory of the Hero, red protodrake). Imagine if using "Epic" mode made these achievements mandatory, or otherwise turned on encounter gimmicks like enrage timers or stacking debuffs or decreased friendly NPC health or whatever. Still tuned for pre-Naxx to Naxx-geared people, but with a hard-mode twist that requires coordination and competence.

3) A re-tuning to higher tier levels. Right now, if you're in Ulduar gear, Heroics are cakewalks. What if Epic setting made those instances a challenge to people in T8-T9 equivalent* by re-jiggering the health/damage of mobs.

4) Letting you 10-man Heroics. Adjust the health/damage of the mobs to account for it. This seems like it would be lame, unless they switched things up to require 2 tanks and/or 3 healers.

Just some thoughts on what else "epic instances" could be in this case. This doesn't address whatever that 40-man limit is in Emerald Dream, but it does offer an explanation for epic difficulty.

[Willara]

40 man raids are the reason I have no desire to ever lead runs again. Having to deal with all the crap that cape along with "epic" experience took the fun away from the game for me. In my opinion 10 and 25 man instances are perfect at the moment. If Blizzard ends up adding a few more classes then yes I would like to see 15 and 30 man raids so that there are more spots and more variety but I think 30 should be the limit and again only if multiple new classes are added.

[Aerion]

Another possibility is that it will be similar to how Wintergrasp will be, where it's an "active combat zone" with limited numbers of troops on each side. Like Wintergrasp, it'd be sort of a cross between a battleground and a "normal" zone.

That's also what came to my mind, but the thing is that it wouldn't be max 40 now would it. At least i wouldn't put my money on that

[Aerion]

40 man raids are the reason I have no desire to ever lead runs again. Having to deal with all the crap that cape along with "epic" experience took the fun away from the game for me. In my opinion 10 and 25 man instances are perfect at the moment. If Blizzard ends up adding a few more classes then yes I would like to see 15 and 30 man raids so that there are more spots and more variety but I think 30 should be the limit and again only if multiple new classes are added.

I'm also rather keen on the idea of 15/30man dungeon possibilities when it comes to raiding. just to keep the variety of all classes in raid without going too extreme on planning the raids and managing them.

And now that we might get a new class (hero?) someday would be nice to have room for everyone...