Infected Wounds

[Cubitz]

Been talking with some prot pally and warrior friends about their abilities, Tier 9 Pally Judgements of the Just and the War ability Thunderclap.

Now, I've noticed tanking heroics and REgualr instances that my infected wounds DOES NOT work on bosses and they are only immune to it.

Am I crazy or is this really happening, and why if it is, can the pallies and wars use their abilities on bosses that we can't as bear tanks?

[Yohassakura]

Am I crazy

Yes.
Infected wounds works on all bosses, but all other classes debuffs (Tc, pally thing, frost fever debuff) can overide it.

[Bek]

^

What he said.

It's fine for 5 mans, iffy for raid builds, and imo nice for PvP

[lilbandit]

only reason not to take it is if you want to maximise your threat, then go into 3/3 natural shapeshifter and 2/2 master shapeshifter.

I personally take it, as it means not having to rely on someone else putting up the debuff, and I don't have a problem with threat at all.

[Elunedra]

i never took not even in my full tank spec tbh ^^ i just dont got spare points

but there are some mobs who are immune to desaiges (Dk cant tank them lol)

[getefix]

It's a tanking talent. It reduces melee damage taken by 20%. There are times when you tank things that melee aren't hitting so don't rely on someone else to do your job for you.

[Elunedra]

It's a tanking talent. It reduces melee damage taken by 20%. There are times when you tank things that melee aren't hitting so don't rely on someone else to do your job for you.

ofc but i got no points to spare ^^
if i had 3 more points id defently do it ofc

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...&version=10116

[Alski]

ofc but i got no points to spare ^^
if i had 3 more points id defently do it ofc

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...&version=10116

Dont spec into MSS >.>

[FamilyGoat]

Dont spec into MSS >.>

True, 5 points for minimal dmg.

[Sinma]

Ye, MMS isn't worth for tanking.. It may sound tempting to get 4% increase on your physicals, but it just isn't worth for the 5 points.

[Elunedra]

oke thanks for the info guys ill go try and see my tps whitout it :P

[Deleted]

I used to take MS, but i see no point in taking imp. mangle. I did some calculations once, and while they are probably long gone, i remember the results: The damage increase from MS is roughly equallent to the damage increase from imp. Mangle, but this is on a single target. There are other factors to take in, like maul being more threat than mangle, so more damage to maul over mangle is more threat. MS helps for AoE tanking aswell, where imp. mangle is just the one ability. I find that without imp. mangle, i can easely fill up my rotation anyways.

Id say skip imp. mangle, keep MS and spec into infected wounds.

[Deleted]

Huzzah, i actually found it: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.ph...2267#msg932267

Master shapeshifter adds 4% damage to everything, Imp. mangle only affects.. well, mangle.

Mangle, by now, is just a debuff skill these days. Looking at a random WWS (10 man), my averege maul hits for 2600 (5413 max crit, quite often with 40% crit), and my mangle hits for 1537 averege and crits for up to 3000 damage.

On the fight i am looking at (Assembly of Iron), maul is 58% of my overall DPS (and it has a massive threat modifier) and mangle is a mere 15% of my overall DPS (with only a minor threat modifier, compared to maul). Lacerate is 19%, for your refrence.

I find that i often want to use my GCDs on keeping lacerate and demo roar up. I would much rather increase damage on an ability that does over three times as much damage, and even more threat, than mangle, and Master Shapeshifter has the benefit of buffing every ability - mangle included.

Assuming that i use mangle every GCD, my DPS from mangle is the following:

With Master Shapeshifter: 1537 / 6 = 256 DPS
With improved mangle: 1477 / 4,5 = 328 DPS
Improved mangle gives another 72 DPS from my mangle.

On the fight in question, i did 2014 DPS. If i remove Master Shapeshifter (4%) i do 1936 DPS, which is a difference of 77,5 DPS.

It might seem petty to be talking about a mere 5 DPS, but Master Shapeshifter adds more damage to maul, which is a major contributor to my damage and does even more threat than mangle. MS also helps swipe on AoE tanking, adds damage to lacerate ticks and so on and so on.

I'd take master shapeshifter.

[Elunedra]

nice calculations but in the end u arent trying todo the most dps while tanking u are trying to get most tps and after maul mangle is 2nd best

now u will basicly keep maul ready for next attack but while your rotation goes on a magle will do more tps thne a swipe or lacerate so instead of magle swipe swipe swipe mangle u can do magle swipe swipe magle witch should do more tps

[Deleted]

As i showed above, taking MS or imp. mangle is almost the same DPS, to a point where its really insignifigant what you take. However, the whole point is that more damage on maul is more threat than the extra mangle, and added to that is the extra threat you get from the extra damage on other attacks - INCLUDING mangle. MS increases everything, imp. mangle is only affecting a static ability. Mangle isn't affected by your own haste, or modifiers like bloodlust. You are offered more utility, and slightly better, by taking MS, than you are with imp. mangle.

[getefix]

I used to be pretty heavy on imp mangle, but I've since gone with MSS because of it's easier rotation. I know that bears don't have a lot of buttons to use, but trying to squeeze in another mangle before your lacerate timer runs out just makes life difficult. MSS gives you the threat of having imp mangle, without having to pound it every 4.5 seconds.

[Alski]

I dont have either in my tank spec these days in favor of more utility, still no therat issues the real problem with MSS is that you have to waste 3 points to get to it so overall its a 5point talent where as Imp mangle is only 3

[Leafre]

I've been running around with that talent http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...&version=10116 and I can say it's pretty good. Best build I've tried so far.

[Sinma]

I've been running around with that talent http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...&version=10116 and I can say it's pretty good. Best build I've tried so far.

No Imp. LotP and no Omen of Clarity? o.O I'm glad if this is working for you, I couldn't ever use it ;D I'm too dependant on the Imp. LotP because I like to solo some TBC instances and farming.

[getefix]

Imp LotP is great for keeping ret paladins alive as well good in the Brain room. Unless someone else has it in your raid then you're hurting people by not bringing it.
Without OoC you're making your 2pc T8 bonus useless, but as far as bear bonuses go it was already pretty useless so no big loss there.