Healing Prot Hurting Tanking Prot.

[Xthform]

We all know about this gimmick spec the arena has spawned. Paladins speccing deep prot with a little holy and wearing full holy gear they have the defenses and life of a prot pally but heal as well as a holy pally (minus having an insta heal). What I've been fearing is that blizz is going to punish tanking prot while trying to solve this gimmick spec. I see no logical way they could fix the problem by toying with the holy tree so the only thing they could do would be to remove the benefits the prot tree to make it less appealing.

I just wanna get an idea about how everyone else feels about the spec and whether you think its going to have a negative effect on the prot pallies who actually do what prot is intended for.


~~Hugs and Kisses~~
Noochie

[Alex304]

they could change the talent 30% stamina to SP and 30%more crit heal talent too Spell damage instead of Spell power meaning they could still hit 5k+ avengers sheilds but their heals would be much less and if that doesnt work they could change the crit heal thing i guess

[Xthform]

they could change the talent 30% stamina to SP and 30%more crit heal talent too Spell damage instead of Spell power meaning they could still hit 5k+ avengers sheilds but their heals would be much less and if that doesnt work they could change the crit heal thing i guess

I'd prefer them not change any of my prot talents to get the the prot healers out of my spec.

[Ronark]

We all know about this gimmick spec the arena has spawned. Paladins speccing deep prot with a little holy and wearing full holy gear they have the defenses and life of a prot pally but heal as well as a holy pally (minus having an insta heal). What I've been fearing is that blizz is going to punish tanking prot while trying to solve this gimmick spec. I see no logical way they could fix the problem by toying with the holy tree so the only thing they could do would be to remove the benefits the prot tree to make it less appealing.

I just wanna get an idea about how everyone else feels about the spec and whether you think its going to have a negative effect on the prot pallies who actually do what prot is intended for.


~~Hugs and Kisses~~
Noochie

Thats why Beacon healing now heals the Beacon for 100% of the heal and not just the efficient heal.

[shockpally]

Hey.. Dont blame Proly healers for the current build.

Talk to the stupid developers who outright nerfed the 37/00/34 Holy Build and continue to ignore how bad deep holy is for PVP.

This is what you get when some idiot puts substantial healing talents in NON healing talent trees.

I hope Prot AND ret both get nerfed just to get the Proly healers out of Prot and never into Sheath.

The fact that they continue to ignore the proly spec shows how the developers truly feel about Holy paladin in PVP.

[gobtol]

Change the "Guarded by the Light" talent. In addition to its current effects, it now reduces all healing by 100% when Divine Plea is active. This would destroy the prot/holy arena spec without really hurting real prot paladins at all.

[shockpally]

Thats why Beacon healing now heals the Beacon for 100% of the heal and not just the efficient heal.

Still Purgable/dispellable.

Beacon is complete trash for PVP. That is why people dont even spec into it for PVP.

[gobtol]

Another idea would be to make "Touched by the Light" scale off of defense rating instead of stamina.

[Vladislavius]

make each and every survival talent in prot tree scale with def (so that it will be as it is now only at 540 def or higher)- screwing prothealers.

[Xthform]

Change the "Guarded by the Light" talent. In addition to its current effects, it now reduces all healing by 100% when Divine Plea is active. This would destroy the prot/holy arena spec without really hurting real prot paladins at all.

They couldn't do that because divine plea even for full holy pallies is an important part of there mana regen that would be 15 seconds on absolutely no healing or they would have to sacrifice alot of mana and only let it tick for half it's time span.

[gobtol]

They couldn't do that because divine plea even for full holy pallies is an important part of there mana regen that would be 15 seconds on absolutely no healing or they would have to sacrifice alot of mana and only let it tick for half it's time span.

It wouldn't affect full holy paladins because they wouldn't be spec'd into the talent.

[Xthform]

It wouldn't affect full holy paladins because they wouldn't be spec'd into the talent.

My bad I read it wrong I though you meant up divine plea's base healing reduction from 50% to 100%.

[Xthform]

Besides, Spell damage doesn't even exist anymore, it's all spell power. I still want to be able to heal after a battle (trust me, i've tried the 0/3 TbtL approach, and it's just awful).

I am meeting FAR TOO MANY prot healers in BG's these days. They're as difficult to beat as a Resto Druid or Disc Priest, difference is, they have damage output rather than just healing output.

Touched by the Light is the issue unfortunately. Solution? Remove all healing plate from game, and increase the bonus of spell power they get from Holy Guidance by 100%.

That means to be able to output any decent amount of healing, they NEED to spec into Holy Guidance. Being nearly impervious to melee, and able to heal through every spell shouldn't be allowed. Holy Guidance is far enough down the tree to mean both can't be specced into, and so, balance is restored somewhat.

I was wondering how long it would be before chron made a post I know you have a big problem with the prot healing spec like I do, also you make extremely good points in that post.

[underdogba]

Another idea would be to make "Touched by the Light" scale off of defense rating instead of stamina.

That's actually a very bad idea as far as threat scaling goes. The current setup smoothly increases spellpower with gear level, b/c pretty much every tanking upgrade will improve your total stamina. At higher gear levels, paladins are knee-deep in avoidance and block-rating, making getting to 102.4% with holy shield trivial (thus pushing regular hits completely off the combat table), so it's often in their best interests to actually drop defense rating to around the minimum for crit-immunity.

As far as your idea goes, it would be possible to have similar threat scaling with a base armor -> spellpower conversion, but that would not solve the issue at all, since pvp prot build healers would get a similar benefit anyway (as spellpower plate has the same base armor value by item level).

[gobtol]

I only really have a problem because they can do all i can, but heal much much better. They have all the benefits of prot, and superior healing output.

Are you talking about PvE or PvP? They sure can't tank anything meaningful in PvE without changing gear, but then they wouldn't be able to heal like that. If you're talking about PvP, then they do significantly less damage than you do (way less attack power, way less weapon damage, no 8k Shield of Righteousness crits for them). What makes you think they can do everything you can do? The only thing they do better than you is heal, and that is to be expected.

[Deralte]

Touched by the Light is the issue unfortunately. Solution? Remove all healing plate from game, and increase the bonus of spell power they get from Holy Guidance by 100%.

That means to be able to output any decent amount of healing, they NEED to spec into Holy Guidance. Being nearly impervious to melee, and able to heal through every spell shouldn't be allowed. Holy Guidance is far enough down the tree to mean both can't be specced into, and so, balance is restored somewhat.

So no holy paladin would be able to heal before level 45. That isn't what blizz would do, afaik.

They couldn't do that because divine plea even for full holy pallies is an important part of there mana regen that would be 15 seconds on absolutely no healing or they would have to sacrifice alot of mana and only let it tick for half it's time span.

This would work.

[gobtol]

That's actually a very bad idea as far as threat scaling goes. The current setup smoothly increases spellpower with gear level, b/c pretty much every tanking upgrade will improve your total stamina. At higher gear levels, paladins are knee-deep in avoidance and block-rating, making getting to 102.4% with holy shield trivial (thus pushing regular hits completely off the combat table), so it's often in their best interests to actually drop defense rating to around the minimum for crit-immunity.

As far as your idea goes, it would be possible to have similar threat scaling with a base armor -> spellpower conversion, but that would not solve the issue at all, since pvp prot build healers would get a similar benefit anyway (as spellpower plate has the same base armor value by item level).

Prot threat already scales off of the strength from gear as well as their weapon. If it really was an issue, you could make it scale off of strength or avoidance instead.

[sheep]

The reason prot-holy is becoming popular, or is popular, is becuase the paladin class has to find pvp utility in different ways than the other healers. Paladin healers don't have the mobility of droods or shams, they don't even have the cc that priests, shams, and druids have. They don't have hots like druids, or shields like priests.

Holy paladin's DO have a very vulnerable physical bubble, and a personal, and formerly invincible bubble.

Now holy doesn't even have those, between priests and warriors about half the teams a paladin healer faces will be able to counter the bubbles. Add to that the fact that by and large, all holy paladins have is casting time heals, this means that holy paladins really cant enjoy getting beaten on despite the shield/plate combo. IMO a design flaw, but sertain holy talents are working to fix that... slightly.

So if a holy paladin really can't heal while being attacked, and needs to devote casting to heal it makes sense that they should be allowed to trade their instant heal for an instant attack (with silence), as well as trade things like bacon and increased heals and mana management for stuns and increased melee damage.

Have a little faith in blizzard, if they are letting this go on it is because the recognize that holy paladins are not using a gimmik to heal better (delving into the ret tree), they are trading something for something.

Now it's another argument entirely to say that the trade-off isn't fair, and that in a PvP environment mana management and increased heals aren't as useful as a stun and a silence with a side of holy spike.

That other argument isn't even what you're qqing about though, your qqing about the possibility that your spec might get nerfed.

I enjoy qqing, as does everyone, but this is pushing the entertainment derived from QQ to a bad place, a place that is more like childish whining than good natured complaining about paladins sucking.

PS Just because you cant see anything logical about something doesn't mean the people you pay to be logical about it don't.

[Wintry]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with creative specs, I really find no other reason why touched by the light is even in the prot tree besides creativeness. I am just happy that the spec caught on, this game is boring when everyone just follows the "trees" and hits their 51 point talent. Someone in blizzard had to have known that this spec would exist, why does everyone act like their dev team is oblivious to such a simple three tree, 10 tier system?

[Raiss]

I only really have a problem because they can do all i can, but heal much much better. They have all the benefits of prot, and superior healing output.

Our Judg, Shield of R are nothing compared to yours. You have more HP, more white dmg, but we can heal more.