What to cast after immolate ?

[tofu_soldier]

As I understand and experienced myself: Immolate is some sort of 'invisible missile' and thus there's a bit of delay (for Conflagrate) after cast time.
What do you do in that window ?

[Spurlij]

CAST BUBBLE.

[Angeal]

Cast Chaos bolt then conflag straight after for the extra burst, Then you get the 3 incinerates faster (As there a longer cast than Chaos)

[Mysmere]

if they can cleanse go straight for a conflag

[Itsdarkandcoldoutside]

Pve atleast I have noticed a tiny bit more dps if you do CB then conflag, not much but a bit.

[Aleksej89]

If its in PvP then:
CoElem Fear Immolate Chaos Bolt Conflagrate then Incinerate/Soulfire during Backdraft.
Insert Shadowfury or Shadowburn as necessary.

If there is a dispeler around, first Fear him then proceed to nuke your chosen target with the rotation above (without the Fear).

[Gungtah]

CAST BUBBLE.

[cloud_strife]

I guess it depends
-if you re fighting an enhcancement shaman that drops grounding totem i ll cast curse of elements just to be absorbed by the totem.or holw of terror if he uses his dogs. Now if none of these two is the case i ll prefer conflagrate for the daze debuff in order to delay him a bit more in order to cast chaos bolt (first time he will earth shock it and i will need to recast) .
-if it is a priest he ll maybe dispel immolate so I wont be able to cast conflagrate , that leaves me with chaos bolt. Again in the situation that the priest is noob and is not dispelling i will follow the immolate - chaos bolt conflagrate shadowfury searing pain -death coil incinerate - spell lock - conflagrate combo.
-if it is a rogue he can always use clos and remove immolate and become almost immune to spell damage and vanish .I wouldnt cast chaos bolt cause even if u cast it while he is visible, if he vanishes in the travellign time of chaos bolt it wont hit him at all.
- Paladins , after bubble is used, i prefer the shadowfury immolate-chaos bolt /conflagrate rotation .

Generally when I am able to choose the casting sequence the logic tells me to use immolate and then 1)chaos bolt2)conflagrate so that they land at the same time on the enemy target. But as i am trying to prove with my examples above, most of the classes have ways to prevent us from following a specific rotation and u must just adjust in each situation.

As far as pve is concerned now i personally enjoy using chaos bolt first because it already has lower cast time than immolate. And i prefer to use the 30% faster casts that we gain after conflagrate for incinerates. But again I am not sure whether or not it is the best it just cames out naturally when i am casting.

[bulld0gsquad]

During a pvp battle ill mash conflagrate because it will hit my target faster than me standing still trying to get off a chaos bolt. During a raid though ill cast immolate -> chaos bolt -> conflagrate so i never stop casting. If i did Immolate -> conflagrate there would be a slight pause before conflagrate would become available to use even after your gcd is ready.

[smapple]

During a raid though ill cast immolate -> chaos bolt -> conflagrate so i never stop casting. If i did Immolate -> conflagrate there would be a slight pause before conflagrate would become available to use even after your gcd is ready.

This

Also Incinerate has a longer cast time than Chaos Bolt so it scales better with the haste bonus you recieve from Backdraft.

[gherkin]

Also Incinerate has a longer cast time than Chaos Bolt so it scales better with the haste bonus you recieve from Backdraft.

This always looks true but isn't always. Assume for the sake of simplicity that backdraft is 100% haste so all spells are exactly half time casts.

Incinerate = 2.25 / 2 = 1.125
Chaos Bolt = 2 / 2 = 1

If you cast Incinerate x 3, you save 3.375s
If you cast Chaos Bolt x 1 and Incinerate x 3, you save 3.25s

BUT Chaos bolt is already .1275s faster than Incinerate. Thus you technically saved 3.375s. Exactly the same.

[Bob002]

Couple guys were talking last night.

Immo > wind up a Chaos bolt > Conflag > incin x3.

[nippsie]

Assuming PVE here,

You should wait for conflag unless you have extremely high latency and even then I would wait. It has nothing to do with cast times of chaos bolt versus incinerate. Simply put, casting conflag after immolate means more conflags which means more backdrafts which means more incinerates/chaos bolts.

[bulld0gsquad]

Assuming PVE here,

You should wait for conflag unless you have extremely high latency and even then I would wait. It has nothing to do with cast times of chaos bolt versus incinerate. Simply put, casting conflag after immolate means more conflags which means more backdrafts which means more incinerates/chaos bolts.

But casting conflag after chaos bolt i still get two conflags off before immolate is up.

[gherkin]

But casting conflag after chaos bolt i still get two conflags off before immolate is up.

Yes.

[nippsie]

But casting conflag after chaos bolt i still get two conflags off before immolate is up.

http://wowmb.net/forums/blogs/fallen..._immolate.html

[Impurath]

And we have a winner. Congrats nippsie

[gherkin]

In response to Fallenman's post, I present the following logic:

How long will it take someone who doesn't cast Immolate - Conflag to reach a point where both Immolate and Conflag wear off at the same time?

Setup:
Lets say latency results in a .2s gap.
Cast Sequence: Immolate Chaos Bolt Conflag
Conflag will hit when Immolate has 13s on the target and has a 10s cooldown.

Reasoning:
We can factor out clipping the conflag cooldown because we also do not have 100% uptime of immolate. I argue that letting a spell finish before casting Conflag will result in the same time lost as letting an Immolate fall off the target so you can refresh without clipping, as you will also let spells finish in order to do this. Thus we need to find the LCM (Least common multiple) of 10 and 15, which is 30.

Maths:
So in a perfect world, at the very minimum you will experience this situation (the .2s gap) is every 30 seconds. Fallenman's argument is that you conflag less as a result. If you had an exactly 5 minute fight, you would lose one conflag. This means that if the fight actually took 5 minutes and 2 seconds, you could have worked another conflag in.

On the flip side, waiting for this .2 second means you did nothing. Standing around, you just lost 2 seconds of DPS (say... 5000), and Conflag hits for 10k.

It works out in the end.

[nippsie]

In response to Fallenman's post, I present the following logic:

How long will it take someone who doesn't cast Immolate - Conflag to reach a point where both Immolate and Conflag wear off at the same time?

Setup:
Lets say latency results in a .2s gap.
Cast Sequence: Immolate Chaos Bolt Conflag
Conflag will hit when Immolate has 13s on the target and has a 10s cooldown.

Reasoning:
We can factor out clipping the conflag cooldown because we also do not have 100% uptime of immolate. I argue that letting a spell finish before casting Conflag will result in the same time lost as letting an Immolate fall off the target so you can refresh without clipping, as you will also let spells finish in order to do this. Thus we need to find the LCM (Least common multiple) of 10 and 15, which is 30.

Maths:
So in a perfect world, at the very minimum you will experience this situation (the .2s gap) is every 30 seconds. Fallenman's argument is that you conflag less as a result. If you had an exactly 5 minute fight, you would lose one conflag. This means that if the fight actually took 5 minutes and 2 seconds, you could have worked another conflag in.

On the flip side, waiting for this .2 second means you did nothing. Standing around, you just lost 2 seconds of DPS (say... 5000), and Conflag hits for 10k.

It works out in the end.

First off I really enjoy your posts and am very glad folks like you contribute to these boards because it makes them worthwhile to visit.

However, I just cannot understand your argument. No matter how you shake it down you get more conflags with immo/conflag as opposed to immo/cb/conflag. Even if it is just one conflag(which it is not) over the course of a long fight that is one more conflag which is more DPS. If your argument is that for .2 seconds you are not doing DPS I guess the counter is that by casting CB you are adding 1 second to Conflag. In any event you will do less conflags and I cannot understand why anyone would want that unless they are just doing things the way they like and that is fine.

Cheers

[gherkin]

Forgive me if I typo as it is late here.

I believe that the people who choose to not wait for conflag indeed do fewer conflags at a maximum of one per 5 minutes but instead make up that lost spells dps by casting more. The counter argument would be that the extra conflag comes with backdraft and pyroclasm and this creates a wider gap than I have estimated. This is a valid point and we still haven't gotten into the xiscussion on movement which would further benefit this wait for conflag model.

My response to this is that the extra conflag comes as the boss is in it's last ten seconds of life and this depending on how many seconds there may or may nor be time to fully utilize the procs.

Conclusion: I will experiment by waiting next raid and report back my findings. I am convinced that it is worth doing but I doubt the size of the difference.