Top end raiding druids and enchants

[Leafre]

I've just noticed when I checked Stars' feral tank after his Anub'Arak HC kill that he is using Blood Draining. Then on the other day, I saw another top end raiding feral tank with that enchant. What is this new trend? Did Blizz changed Blood Draining to heal % of own HP, or is it still a flat amount of heal/stack? If the second option, why does it even worth it? I don't get it, halp.

[Melonberry]

Bears can't parry.
Dodge hits heavy DR.
Berserking has an armor penalty.
I guess you could use executioner instead of blood draining...

Please think before asking questions.

[Selverein]

Bears can't parry.
Dodge hits heavy DR.
Berserking has an armor penalty.
I guess you could use executioner instead of blood draining...

Please think before asking questions.

Wow, troll much? Mongoose is still superior mitigation-wise.

My guess is that those guys are going for full survivability so Blood Draining becomes the only "logical" choice.

[Leafre]

Dodge hits heavy DR after 60%++, they are nowhere near that because they are stacking stamina. They got around 40% dodge unbuffed bear form.

Please inform yourself before answering questions.

[Leafre]

Wow, troll much? Mongoose is still superior mitigation-wise.

My guess is that those guys are going for full survivability so Blood Draining becomes the only "logical" choice.

That's what I've figured out, it's the most "logical" for survivability. But somehow I cannot convince myself that 1.8k HP beats 120agi at that high amount of HP (talking about 65k++ and almost 100k with SI)

[Melonberry]

Dodge hits heavy DR after 60%++, they are nowhere near that because they are stacking stamina. They got around 40% dodge unbuffed bear form.

Please inform yourself before answering questions.

Sorry, I didn't realize there were people who raided unbuffed. For the normal buffed raiders, sitting between 50 and 60% dodge, mongoose starts to lose its value.

It's nearly impossible to model how good blood draining is, so I wont even try.

But I'm sure you're a better player than these people. So obviously they, as well as myself are wrong...and you are right.

Wow, troll much? Mongoose is still superior mitigation-wise.

My guess is that those guys are going for full survivability so Blood Draining becomes the only "logical" choice.

Wait...what?
I guess technically an occasional 120 armor is better than nothing, but I think you meant avoidance.

[Leafre]

Sorry, I didn't realize there were people who raided unbuffed. For the normal buffed raiders, sitting between 50 and 60% dodge, mongoose starts to lose its value.

It's nearly impossible to model how good blood draining is, so I wont even try.

But I'm sure you're a better player than these people. So obviously they, as well as myself are wrong...and you are right.

I want to be a better player, or at least I want to understand it more. No, ppl with 40% dodge unbuffed like myself won't hit 60% dodge without any procs, not even in a 25man raid. You sir, failed again.

[Melonberry]

I want to be a better player, or at least I want to understand it more. No, ppl with 40% dodge unbuffed like myself won't hit 60% dodge without any procs, not even in a 25man raid. You sir, failed again.

Sorry, didn't know this thread was about you. Should have called it "What enchant should I use?" and not referred to "top end raiding druids." Because they will be approaching 50-60% dodge.

Many tanks use blood draining. It's not bad. It's just impossible to model.

Is mongoose better in some situations? Sure. Does it hit dr? Yes. Do heals hit dr? No.

I'm done trying to understand why you would mention being unbuffed, or why you don't understand why anyone would use that enchant. Try it if you want. Likely, you'll be able to form your own opinion.

[Degrador]

Think about Blood Draining this way - it heals you when you need it the most, usually providing ~1-2k. That's effectively like having that extra amount of HP for the healers to work with. If Blood Draining was a permanent 100 stam you'd take it without question. This enchant is almost as good as that, hence why a lot of people (particularly those trying to build the maximum possible effective health) will use it.

[getefix]

Sorry, didn't know this thread was about you. Should have called it "What enchant should I use?" and not referred to "top end raiding druids." Because they will be approaching 50-60% dodge.

Many tanks use blood draining. It's not bad. It's just impossible to model.

Is mongoose better in some situations? Sure. Does it hit dr? Yes. Do heals hit dr? No.

I'm done trying to understand why you would mention being unbuffed, or why you don't understand why anyone would use that enchant. Try it if you want. Likely, you'll be able to form your own opinion.

You're not useful and you start every reply with "Sorry". Telling us to try it to see if we like it isn't helpful, it's a waste of gold. OP is asking why, and you're telling him to figure out for himself. Do us a favor and delete your account.

Blood Draining grants a lot of survivability. 2k Healing after you fall below 35% health is extremely useful. These tanks care about nothing more than staying alive as long as possible. That allows them to see as much of a fight as possible so they can build a viable strategy. The majority of us are looking to minimize damage taken to make encounters easier on healers.

[Degrador]

The majority of us are looking to minimize damage taken to make encounters easier on healers.

As a healer I personally prefer my tanks to have larger effective health pools - the larger the EH the more of a buffer the healers have with which to land their heals. Throughput is rarely a problem, but tanks dying faster than the healers had to land their heal (because they were moving out of fire, healing the other tank / raid, etc.) often is.

[getefix]

As a healer I personally prefer my tanks to have larger effective health pools - the larger the EH the more of a buffer the healers have with which to land their heals. Throughput is rarely a problem, but tanks dying faster than the healers had to land their heal (because they were moving out of fire, healing the other tank / raid, etc.) often is.

Your choice, but I never die because my healers can't heal me fast enough. I die because my healers die.

[deathbysushi-(-_-)-]

hero member has more post's INSTA WIN wait, no

why does it even worth it? I don't get it, halp.

Bears can't parry.
Dodge hits heavy DR.
Berserking has an armor penalty.
I guess you could use executioner instead of blood draining...

answered his ? did it not?

[Elunedra]

i have though it before. i was always an avoidence kind of druid. :

but nowdays whit ToC H and IC H i do feel that hp is the best option so i regemmed everythnig for stamina now getting about 53K hp raid buffed.

dodge is good ofc but in the end u can trust on it to avoid the hit, even at 60% (witch i think no druids has) u cant trust on it on dodge your next hit u might still take like 3 or 4 in a row. and when u do u are happy to survive it whit some stamina :P

blood draining seems useless indeed, but like other ppl say its like having 2K extra HP when u drop below 35% and if u do get sick hp pools like 60K 35% + 2K might still give u like 23K to survive an other dot tick or something.

yeh i still think blizz wil nerf bear stamina in 3.3 i mean the gap between us an other tanks gets bigger and bigger it cant be right ^^

[Melonberry]

OP is asking why

I figured I answered it, like...12 times. Since he didn't want to listen, he should test it himself.

Bears can't parry.
Dodge hits heavy DR.
Berserking has an armor penalty.
I guess you could use executioner instead of blood draining...

between 50 and 60% dodge, mongoose starts to lose its value.
It's nearly impossible to model how good blood draining is, so I wont even try.
I guess technically an occasional 120 armor is better than nothing, but I think you meant avoidance.

Many tanks use blood draining. It's not bad. It's just impossible to model.

Is mongoose better in some situations? Sure. Does it hit dr? Yes. Do heals hit dr? No.

Maybe you missed all those posts. Each one dismissed or blown off in some way. Apparently by you and the op.

Just because you doesn't read it doesn't make me wrong.

[Leafre]

i have though it before. i was always an avoidence kind of druid. :

but nowdays whit ToC H and IC H i do feel that hp is the best option so i regemmed everythnig for stamina now getting about 53K hp raid buffed.

dodge is good ofc but in the end u can trust on it to avoid the hit, even at 60% (witch i think no druids has) u cant trust on it on dodge your next hit u might still take like 3 or 4 in a row. and when u do u are happy to survive it whit some stamina :P

blood draining seems useless indeed, but like other ppl say its like having 2K extra HP when u drop below 35% and if u do get sick hp pools like 60K 35% + 2K might still give u like 23K to survive an other dot tick or something.

yeh i still think blizz wil nerf bear stamina in 3.3 i mean the gap between us an other tanks gets bigger and bigger it cant be right ^^

Hoever those numbers seems big, in equla lvl of gear other tanks have fuckin huge pools also. Like warriors 41-43K unbuffed. DKs even more. The sad thruth is, that we need our HP.

[getefix]

hero member has more post's INSTA WIN wait, no answered his ? did it not?

And we went on to explain that progression tanks like the stam stacking behemoths like the one in stars are quite low on dodge because they value stam more than anything else. I'd be willing to bet that He doesn't hit 50% dodge unless he has trinket procs going. I can't verify that because his Druid isn't in his tank gear.

Blood Draining is Effective Health, Mongoose is Avoidance. These tanks want Effective Health.

I figured I answered it, like...12 times. Since he didn't want to listen, he should test it himself.Maybe you missed all those posts. Each one dismissed or blown off in some way. Apparently by you and the op.

Just because you doesn't read it doesn't make me wrong.

I read it, you just said it's too hard to model so you won't try. I supposed the OP wanted an answer.

[Deleted]

You said : at 60% dodge DR hits
He said : they are at 40% unbuffed which i am too but buffs don't take me anywhere near 60%
You said : why are you talking about unbuffed now ? Make up your mind !

His argument about unbuffed and his stats was just to try to get an indication on how much dodge they would hit fully buffed. They might have much better stats overall but if they start with the same dodge unbuffed they'll probably end up with equivalent dodge once buffed.

ie you didn't answer the question.

[Sunshine]

I have one weapon with each, and I use them situationally.

- Blood draining takes 50 seconds to build up 5 stacks of the buff. This means it's good if you know you're going to get hit hard once a minute, like Vezax enrage or heroic beasts. It's also interesting to note that the heal can crit -- I've definitely been saved by a 4k crit blood draining heal that put me just high enough to survive the next hit.

- Extra dodge from mongoose is nice for general purpose reduction of total healing necessary. Extra crit and haste are also nice for a higher chance to proc a bubble. The ability to use the same weapon for tank and dps is also nice.

If you can, have both. Throw blood draining on a stam stacked weapon (like the polearm from vezax 10 hard + stam gems), and throw mongoose on an avoidance-stacked weapon. If you can't, just pick whichever seems more useful in your daily situation.

[Zoster]

Your choice, but I never die because my healers can't heal me fast enough. I die because my healers die.

one thing certain, you know as little you try and tell others that they know.


Try and read your posts. Check your own achivements, rethink if the gearing strategy you use can't be better.