Yet another rogue with dps issues :/

[Lowki]

I've been raiding for some time now and I feel my dps isn't really where it should be based on my gear. For numbers I do around 6k dps on 10 man Gormak in 10 ToC. I'm sure I should be doing 7-8k at least from what I see posted by some rogues. If you guys can steer me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. I know armor pen is the new thing as well as keeping T8 set, but any advice on it would be great. My rotation is solid btw.

Gear:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rspine&n=Lowki

[Ryuuji]

Do you mean for the entire Northrend Beasts encounted? Or just Gormak. Fight length has a lot to do with it, Heroism/Bloodlust usage. The people doing 8k are in groups who really know what they're doing and are going through the fight in a very short amount of time. Also, it should be almost impossible to do 8k Under normal circumstances in a 10 man(Assuming you are missing some buffs)

[Voij]

I'm sure I should be doing 7-8k at least from what I see posted by some rogues.

Which Rogues did this when, where and who posted that? O_o

About your gear:
If you have 4pc T8.5, then use it. It's definitely better then T9.232, especially if you don't have 4pc T9.
Get the Agi/Crit Meta, then use only Nightmare Tear in the blue socket that grants you the biggest upgrade. (Remember, Yellow+Blue still demands 2x red unless you have no other blue sockets.)
Don't use any green/purple/blue gems as long as you're using the Nightmare Tear.
You're quite a lot above expertise-cap, try to lose some of that T9-crap and exchange it for T8.5[If you still have that], this should bring you closer to more reasonable expertise-values.
If you alternate between Combat and Mutilate, then drop those ArP-gems, they're crap as Mut-Rogue.

That's about all that I can see right now.


BTW: I still have a hard time not yelling at the stupidity of Rogues who buy the T9.232 shoulders, only way to calm myself is by remembering, that they don't really have a clue. The 245 non-set-shoulders which one can buy for Triumph-Emblems are actually BiS Non-25-Hardmode-Loot for Combat Rogues, as they've got great amounts of ArP and Crit.
I already told the Rogues I know [they all play Combat btw] that they should stick to 4pc T8 and get those shoulders, then save their DKP for Offpieces.

[FirstRogue]

currently7-8k is the maximum you would see by the most geared rogues in a melee buff stacked group in a 10man, it is unlikely they could sustain that high in a ToC encounter because soo much movement in generally involved. If you have seen the anub recount meters and think u should be that high you shouldnt, FoK spam.

I consider myself to be very geared considering how long the content has been out and in a 10man i peak at around 7k dps on a phase like gormak. This generally is not my final dps as it lowers alot in the second and final phase.

If i was you i would be rather happy with 6k at your current gear level.

(i generally raid as assasination)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...27Thos&n=First

[Lowki]

First off, thanks for the quick replys guys. The points brought up regarding the shoulders I can defintely see. I'm an assassin rogue in a guild with EPGP so emblems I get constantly, but trophies are almost impossible for the next couple months with my current Gear Points. The main reason for choosing the T9 shoulders first was because I looted my 25 man leggings first and was eager to get my 4 set still. The 4 set is still my goal but I will switch to T8 at least until' I get the 4 set bonus with some T9.25 gear. As far as the DPS that I stated this was 6k dps on Gormok only without hero.

[Wikko]

Mutilate is behind combat atm anyways, and as you said that it was only for gormok so other rogues probably used CD's such KS/BF + AR (which unfortunately muti slacks). Also another tip is to have someone TotT you and you TotT:ing him, +15% dmg for 6 sec is goood

[DarkLynx]

I did 7700 on gormak last night, with no bloodlust. That is however on 25 man, I'm closer to 6k on 10 man (in my combat offset for the 4% damage buff.) Just saying 7-8k isn't that crazy right now.

Basically, get rid of the armor pen gems if you're raiding mutilate, because they're bad bad bad bad bad for mutilate. Stop gemming for every blue socket, just put a nightmare tear in your helm for the 8 agi, and go RED RED in anything else with a blue socket. I know this has already been said, but it really needs to be reiterated, cuz its what is going to help you the most right now.

If you have footpads of silence or another ulduar boot still, use those, as you're completely wasting the 48 expertise on the acidmaw treads.

[snubb]

6k dps is respectable in a 10 man, remember that rogues need tons of buffs in order to be able to get the most out of their potential, which is usually hard to do in a 10 man. Just be thankful you're not in charge of exposing armor like I am in our 10 mans, since we seem to lack a reliable warrior.

Aside from that everything everyone else has posted is valid, however I recommend using 10 agi/10 crit gems in a yellow socket, since i have honestly never seen a yellow socket bonus that has not yielded more EP than if you ignore color and gem straight agi. Spreadsheets are a wonderful thing.

Speaking of spreadsheets, before the current armor pen nerf, the iLvl 245 T9 gear is only about a 100 dps upgrade for me over t8.5, so I can only assume that the iLvl 232 T9 is a direct downgrade from T8.5 and is really NOT worth spending triumph emblems on. After everyone else in my guild has had their fill on the trophies of the crusade, i'll probably pick the t9 stuff up, mainly for the stam in case that becomes an issue in Icecrown (Naj'entus anyone?)

[UR1L]

I'm sure I should be doing 7-8k at least from what I see posted by some rogues.

Most people posting their dps here adds 2k to their real amount. e-peen sucks :P
6k is fine for 10man imo.

[Zapporius]

how much dps you do on 25-man heartbreaker? It's more of a "new patchwerk" benchmark, regardless of bombs or not.

[Bigbluedruid]

As someone above said and as I always like to mention, DPS is greatly effected by the other dps members in the raid. If everyone does high dps the fight is shorter and cooldowns and bloodlust have a stronger impact on dps. So all strong dps members mean higher numbers at the end.

[sulfuric]

how much dps you do on 25-man heartbreaker? It's more of a "new patchwerk" benchmark, regardless of bombs or not.

All fights with damage amplifications are discredited as any form of "patchwerk" dps test. To the OP if you are looking for ways to push the damage envelope ask yourself a few things. Are you aware of your procs? If so what are you doing with them? A good rogue would apply ruptures during an AP proc trinket, and killing spree during armor pen procs. Are you getting tricks from another rogue? A good rogue would killing spree during those tricks, a better rogue would killing spree with both tricks and trinket procs (I made a post about how to do this in the stickies section). However those are end game tricks, and you seem to be a bit closer to the novice end of the spectrum. Become familiar with a spreadsheet, and plug in all your current gear, remove every single flask food and raid buff from the calculations so you are left with your completely unbuffed damage (aside from savage combat and your poisons, I assume you're combat) And go to a test dummy where you won't be jumping between them with killing spree and try to match or beat the projected numbers in the spreadsheet. When you can match, beat, or come within 80 dps of that number 5/5 times then you have understood your rotation and how to properly improv a cycle when certain situations arise. Once you are using the proper cycle, then come back and try to fit my tricks into your playstyle. If you can do all of that, then you get to think about cloaking abilities vanishing other abilities and ensuring a near 100% combat presence. When you can do everything at once, you'll probably be wanting to find a new guild. Best of luck

[snubb]

sulfuric, I'm interested to know what you use to track ToTT other rogues use on yourself. I currently use classtimers, which gives me the quick and dirty of trinket procs, SnD, all that good stuff, but I haven't seen a good one to track tricks casted on me, everything I have tried just shows the buff when I'm doing the casting.

I searched through the combat sticky, couldn't find the post you alluded to and couldn't find anything in your recent posts. Any help would be much appreciated.

EDIT: Ok, so i'm an idiot, literally stopped searching through previous posts the post before the one I was looking for, its not sticked, but it should be. I've never used Elkano's Buff Bars, how hard is it to set up so that you only see incoming tricks of the trade? I'm actually farily surprised that our UIs are very similar, only thing I'm really missing is the tricks buff.

[ZackRaynor]

sulfuric, I'm interested to know what you use to track ToTT other rogues use on yourself. I currently use classtimers, which gives me the quick and dirty of trinket procs, SnD, all that good stuff, but I haven't seen a good one to track tricks casted on me, everything I have tried just shows the buff when I'm doing the casting.

I searched through the combat sticky, couldn't find the post you alluded to and couldn't find anything in your recent posts. Any help would be much appreciated.

EDIT: Ok, so i'm an idiot, literally stopped searching through previous posts the post before the one I was looking for, its not sticked, but it should be. I've never used Elkano's Buff Bars, how hard is it to set up so that you only see incoming tricks of the trade? I'm actually farily surprised that our UIs are very similar, only thing I'm really missing is the tricks buff.

Tell them to stop being lazy and tell them to make a macro to whisper you when they put tricks on you.

/target you
/cast Tricks of the Trade
/whisper you You got Tricks of the Trade on you! /in 6
/whisper you Tricks has Faded! *

or something to that respect. Replace you with a name ofc. You'd have to adjust it for your targets, but it does make it easier for both you and them to time things right.

*Macro may not be right.

[snubb]

I tried this very briefly back in Naxx and absolutely hated it. Its a clunky way of doing things and defeats the purpose, I'm looking for a bar that shows when i have tricks on me that is redily available, a wall of purple text mixed with raid warnings and dbm spam in the lower corner of my screen doesn't really help me.

[sulfuric]

You can view my post Here. To answer your question specifically no EBB is not a very difficult mod and I prefer to use it because quite simply it does the job of 5 mods if used properly. EBB meaning Elkanos Buff Bars of course, you'll run into an issue with tricks. It's not much of an issue however you'll see a buff on yourself if you cast tricks, and another if you recieve it. The game doesn't differentiate between the ingoing and outgoing version of tricks, so EBB cannot. However this was never an issue for me, because I knew if I was one tricks and I had just used tricks than it was mine which is obvious. If there was two and I had just used mine then someone had tricksed me at the same time, and if there was one and I had not used tricks than someone tricked me out of turn. Either way I always saw it, and I always knew who it belonged to. I hope this cleared up any questions