Reading more into the tanking 2 set bonuses of T10

[bavarcarus]

Do you think they're putting it in there just to make us happy or will they design some bosses with add sets that need to be aoe'd down fast?

[arel00]

Do you think they're putting it in there just to make us happy or will they design some bosses with add sets that need to be aoe'd down fast?

And why should they? Swipe is what we hit every free GCD on single target as well. Mangle>FF, keep Lacerate stacked and spam Swipe. It's always like this. No matter how you look at it, it IS a boost to single target TPS, and not a little one either.

[bavarcarus]

Don't get me wrong, I'll be fiending to get my 2 set, because our DK kills me on aoe threat.

I use swipe but after mangle and FFF are on cd

[getefix]

Don't get me wrong, I'll be fiending to get my 2 set, because our DK kills me on aoe threat.

I use swipe but after mangle and FFF are on cd

It's your choice but I'll always choose the ability that gives me a SD proc rather than none. I only use FFF when I have no rage.

This buff is for all tanks. Everyone gets a 20% damage increase to a multi-target ability. This is either due to tanks crying that they can't hold AOE threat, or because blizz anticipates a lot of aoe fights in Icecrown. I'm sure there will be fights in Icecrown where you'll be choosing which tank to use based on who has their 2/4 T10.

[exochaft]

The tanking set bonuses for all tanking classes give 20% damage to single/aoe targets. However upon closer inspection, it looks like warriors and druids got the better bargain in terms of what gets the damage buff.

I think the unlying message is this: Blizz thinks warriors and druids need a little more help with threat generation department. It has more relevance for a rage-based tank than a DK/Pally because it's much easier for rage tanks to have no power to generate threat, or be in a limited rage situation as our gear gets better. Probably just one of those minor band-aids to try to help out a little. Beyond that, every tank will get a nice hefty threat increase in the aoe department at least, even though they all can be applied to single-target threat generation. The bigger picture I see is that the scaling between our new tank gear and threat required to maintain aggro from good DPS is anticipated to get horrid enough that we'll need a set bonus like that. Even now, with good DPS behind you, they can sure give you a run for your money even if you're doing everything right to maintain threat. It will just get worse with how gear scaling has been through each iteration of this expansion. Blizz is at least preparing for the worst and throwing us a bone! =D

[Cerus]

The tanking set bonuses for all tanking classes give 20% damage to single/aoe targets. However upon closer inspection, it looks like warriors and druids got the better bargain in terms of what gets the damage buff.

I think the unlying message is this: Blizz thinks warriors and druids need a little more help with threat generation department. It has more relevance for a rage-based tank than a DK/Pally because it's much easier for rage tanks to have no power to generate threat, or be in a limited rage situation as our gear gets better.

It's spelled "underlying"

And that's a very poor assumption since Druids are amazing at threat generation - if they know how to play that is. I'll agree with you about Warriors though, they need all the help they can get. But if you're losing threat as a Druid then you need to learn how to tank.

Unless your tanking normals/heroics or vastly outgear the dungeon you won't have rage issues as a bear. We get plenty from crits and dodges. Considering how hard end game bosses hit now, no rage based MT should have rage issues.

[getefix]

Hammer of the Righteous is a huge threat building ability. Although when glyphed it only hits 4 targers vs infinite with our swipe and infinite with warriors shockwave, buffing HotR would be like buffing our maul.

I'm not sure how D&D fits into all this as I was under the assumption that it was only a really good ability for some tanks (depending on their spec).

I still don't think that buffing swipe and shockwave were done to fix rage mechanics. This is T10 we're talking about. It's designed to be worn in Icecrown and beyond so I don't think they're too worried about being rage starved. If you're rage starved in heroic, use some dps gear.

[arel00]

I'm not sure how D&D fits into all this as I was under the assumption that it was only a really good ability for some tanks (depending on their spec).

D&D is the bread and butter of DKs' AoE tanking, regardless of their spec. The problem is... it's just that. It has no use whatsoever on single target tanking. Which is the reason DKs are complaining about the T10 set bonus atm.

[Shinshiva]

D&D is the bread and butter of DKs' AoE tanking, regardless of their spec. The problem is... it's just that. It has no use whatsoever on single target tanking. Which is the reason DKs are complaining about the T10 set bonus atm.

What if they just add DnD to the rotation? Hell I would if I was DK tank with that bonus. I don't think it's "wasted" if it's doing 20% extra damage, but I'm a bear, I've been hit too many times in the noggin to do proper maths.

[Alski]

What if they just add DnD to the rotation? Hell I would if I was DK tank with that bonus. I don't think it's "wasted" if it's doing 20% extra damage, but I'm a bear, I've been hit too many times in the noggin to do proper maths.

it still wouldnt be worth it for single target.

[arel00]

What if they just add DnD to the rotation? Hell I would if I was DK tank with that bonus. I don't think it's "wasted" if it's doing 20% extra damage, but I'm a bear, I've been hit too many times in the noggin to do proper maths.

it still wouldnt be worth it for single target.

Not even close, I might add.

[jimbo_red13]

Well an idea I had for my dk, sometimg I wanted to try and test once I got my t10 2pc. I want to try using the dnd glyph and put points into the dnd talent. If everything stacked we could be looking at 40% more dmg and casted like once every other normal dk rotation maybe?

Its just an idea, probably wouldn't work, but still an idea.

[Kujako]

They're doing it just to piss off everyone who did one of those "is swipe better then lacerate" calculations.

[arel00]

They're doing it just to piss off everyone who did one of those "is swipe better then lacerate" calculations.

Pointless. Lacerate is a DoT, the front damage will not out-threat Swipe. It's been like this since TBC.

[Kujako]

Pointless. Lacerate is a DoT, the front damage will not out-threat Swipe. It's been like this since TBC.

Lacerate has a fair amount of non-damage, front loaded threat. Currently, there is an attack-power/crit ratio at which swipe starts to generate more threat against single targets.

The +20% damage to swipe ends that debate.

[getefix]

Lacerate has a fair amount of non-damage, front loaded threat. Currently, there is an attack-power/crit ratio at which swipe starts to generate more threat against single targets.

The +20% damage to swipe ends that debate.

Does the +20% damage to lacerate restart it?

[Kujako]

Does the +20% damage to lacerate restart it?

Nope.

Lacerate damage is too low. Its what, 150 damage at the high end? An extra 30 damage is not going to translate into near the same amount of extra threat as 20% more to Swipe, which is dealing between one and two thousand on a crit.

Frankly, with its low damage component all the bonuses to Lacerate have struck me as silly.

[arel00]

The bonuses to Lacerate are extremely goo when you consider five stacks rolling for their full duration. That's when the damage and threat of Lacerate truly shine. Which by the way, was my point in the previous post. If you find yourself in a situation when Lacerate front damage can out-TPS Swipe... you're doing it wrong. That "damage threshold" is something you should always pass with good gearing.

[Kujako]

The bonuses to Lacerate are extremely goo when you consider five stacks rolling for their full duration. That's when the damage and threat of Lacerate truly shine. Which by the way, was my point in the previous post. If you find yourself in a situation when Lacerate front damage can out-TPS Swipe... you're doing it wrong. That "damage threshold" is something you should always pass with good gearing.

DoT effects have a low threat generation modifier (I want to say 30% of damage to threat, but I dont remember for sure).

And lots, nay all, Druids at some point will generate more threat with lacerate then swipe. We dont all start at 80th with top end gear. Granted, swipe wins out long before you'll be getting the 4 bit T10 bonus. Well, someone is bound to go from blues to T10 in one sitting, but they're the exception. and I hate them.

[getefix]

DoT effects have a low threat generation modifier (I want to say 30% of damage to threat, but I dont remember for sure).

Have you read the Lacerate tooltip?