How are shamans a threat in PvP?

[Daranon]

One of the things I have honestly been wondering is over all, how are shaman's in general a threat in PvP?

The reason for asking, is because when I look at most of the talents in each of the trees, I wonder where is most of our survivability and also what abilities do we have that are in some way feared by other classes in PvP?

So im asking:

what spec, talents and glyphs would you go for In PvP to maximize your survivability and damage?

When/how would you use these abilities in heated situations?

What measures do you take to try to survive?

How do you try to gain the upper hand in PvP Situations?

I really would like to know how you guys handle certain classes. Where it comes to classes that you find easier to kill then others, and why?

I'm asking for these things on all levels, dueling, world pvp, Bg's and Arenas.

So if you could please give me some detailed information on what you guys know and think, I would be very appreciated.

Also some spec's i have come up with:

Elemental:http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?shaman#98zWbkcZL7hmM,Jykq-O,10554

Enhancement: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...5,Oywq-R,10554

Resto:http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?shaman#f9klXBTgRVv6a,RypqO-,10554

Please let me know what you guys think? ;D

[Baabinator]

For Resto pvp.

Go for this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...L,RypqO-,10554

And go for mp5.
Crit isn't worth it in pvp imo. 3 Bad non-crit streaks and your through a quarter of your total mana.

All the crit you need is on Tidal Waves with LHW

Drop Grounding, Stoneclaw as much as possible. Have Healing Stream (or cleansing, depending on enemies) up at ALL TIMES. Or use mana spring when you have some time to regain.

Since Earth Shield has 8 charges, it takes ALOT of dispels (and you also have Earthliving, and 1 point in Ancestral Healing) to remove all that and kinda makes Healing Grace overkill.

Healing Wave is very mana efficient, and taking the +25% HW talent can really make the difference.

[elliss]

Not trying to be an ass but asking for general hand outs like that isn't cool dude , try it out or do some reaserch and then ask for more help then .
Shamans are a fun and rewarding class to lvl and play but a high skill cap for pvp can be frustrating at times try it out though you will be pleasently surprised

[MushroomBomb]

Ever been hit by a shaman, another melee dps and two spirit wolfs on steroids? Yeah... it hurts :-\

[Shastomp]

Depends on specc really, i myself is enh specc så shamanistic rage is used alot depending on situation (if i'm alone or if i have a healer on me)
then various totems depending on what i need, a stun or just slowing them down or just to increase my dps, grounding totem is really good for all speccs.
cleansing totem even tho it doesnt tick the second you put it down its still useful same with tremor totem.
the only totems i really dont use alot in pvp are the different resistant totems healing and manastream, then again that culd be cos im enh specc.

The stun effect you get from the fira nova totem in the specc you posted is really fun if you time it right, tho its beeing taken away in patch 3.3 as of now.
Feral spirit with glyphed is awesome, always nice to have that xtra healing with dmg every now and then and the cooldown isnt to long.
then you have frozen power to freeze ppl that are further then 15 yards a really nice talent tho alot of classes has ways to get out of it.

As for the other two speccs i havent got a clue since ive never tried em.
Lvld as an enh shaman and loved it so much im still playing it =)

[Jax Omen]

Shaman are a threat in PvP? news to me.

Enhance gets gibbed nigh-instantaneously if wolves or SR aren't up. If they are, we're on par with the other melee classes! (for the duration of the cooldown). We still die from cheap shot+kidney shot, of course, or if you trinket the kidney, enjoy eating a blind while your healer dies.

Elemental is a turret. If you have amazing peelers for buddies, you can burst like a destro lock, but you're super easy to lock down.

Resto... isn't bad, but aside from Bloodlust, I've always felt like I couldn't keep up with the other healers in PvP. We lack any sort of absorbtion (priests), our HoTs suck (druid) or destroy our regen to use on ourselves (ES means no WS), and we don't get to wear plate + have bubble (Paladins, our casted-heals bretheren).



Basically, shaman casters suffer from a lack of instants that leaves us forced to be stationary too often for the high-mobility environment that is Arena, and Enhancement Shaman are a one-trick pony, where the game is decided based on whether we win the match during wolves or not.

[Nichpish]

shammys ftw ..\/, ^.^ ,\/..

[EyelessCrow]

Ever been hit by a shaman, another melee dps and two spirit wolfs on steroids? Yeah... it hurts :-\

Lol...damned enhance shamans and their super insane dps...as long as you include another melee into the scenario.

[elliss]

@ jaxx , wow didn't know shamans are so bad .
I'm not going to say you're complitly wrong but you are presenting the down side of the class , and every class have down sides/ weeknesses .
Its true shamans in general are behind , but with the know how they can be deadly . Resto shamans present utility and mobility a bit harder to shut down compaired to a pally .
Elemental can feel like turrents but if you sit there and try to spam lb you deserve to die. I recall in one of our 2v2 we went up against a ret, rogue , we run ele rogue the pally tried to be a smart ass and opened on me while his rogue is still in stealth he went from 100% to 5% in a lvb cl frost shock , ofcourse had fs up as soon as he got in range to get in combate and not get sapped .
That took what 3 second , not counting fs it would be on him anyways for getting in combat . So you realy don't need that much mobility as an ele gw roots , nova is a killer against melee just know how to use them and that's just part of it

[Jax Omen]

Shaman aren't actually particularly bad (outside of 2s), I just got fed up with the class in PvP because when I got my druid to 80 I found myself doing twice as well with half the gear.

Sorry if my pessimism at Shaman PvP bothers you.

[mikevenable]

shamans r not the best in 2v2 if ur enh, restro is good, and ele can be a beast just need to no what ur doing, and for 3v3 and 5v5 shamans play a big roll, 3v3 if ur a Enh shaman get a BM Hunter, and a holy pally hands down one of the best 3v3 teams out there but like i sead enh no good in 2v2 FOR NOW... For ele if u have the gear thay can hit harder then a lock, but not die as fast; so fined ur self a good healer and ur set. and do i have to say anythang on restro come on a good restro shaman can just spam water shild and kite the dps non stop there not the best healer for pvp but thay bring BL for 3v3 and 5v5.

[Eras]

Stay out of the 2v2 bracket as a resto shaman if you can Ive played in it since season 3, and it has never been fun, probably because we arent as strong as other healers. Thank god that resto shamans arent even close to being bad in 3v3 and 5v5, its actually fun to play in those two brackets.

And on how you should glyph / play your char, I think youre better off figuring it out for yourself. Much better if you find your own playstyle, probably easier aswell.

About the specs, none of them are good. The ones you made yourself lack certain talents which are really nice, the one Baabinator made isent good either.
And I will say why I think like that. First off is the elemental spec, it lacks Totem of Wrath, thats 136 spell power and 3% extra crit you have not included, and thats for every spell caster in your team. The enhancement spec lacks the hit talent, so instead of having a 13% miss penalty, you got 19% (Not including the extra -5% miss from fighting a lvl 80 player), you also lack the -50% disarm time talent, that means you gotta waste a enchant slot for a chain instead of berserker. Your resto spec lacks the water shield talent, which is a nice mana boost for resto shamans, and you will easily notice the difference when you got it. Also the lack of +25% healing on healing wave is bad.

Onto Baabinators post, crit is not a bad choice, but you shouldnt go just for crit since that would place you into the hands of the RNG god. Critting will not only increase the heal of the spell by 50% (95% extra healing with Ancestral Awakening, 50% extra on the target and 45% on the one with the lowest % HP). It will also give them a debuff which reduces the damage they take from physical attacks by 10%, which is pretty big if we are talking about a cloth / leather user. You will also regain mana which is a big plus.
Now about his talent choices, they are pretty bad if you ask me, not having the 30% resistance on removing you buffs will make it a walk in the park for others to remove your buffs. With it they will waste more mana, and more time on removing your buffs.
Not having points in Ancestral Healing is bad aswell since it reduces the damage of melee users, which is pretty high normally.
Restorative Totems and Mana Tide Totem is also bad, since most of the time you have cleansing totem up, which pretty much nullifies Restorative Totems. And Mana Tide Totem is just a big sign saying "HI, HIT THIS STICK!". I gave up those talents seasons ago since the first one just isent worth it, and mana tide never last for the whole duration (Atleast not in higher rated fights), the mana it gives back is also pretty low.
Worst part about the spec must be the lack of Ancestral Awakening, the extra healing it gives is amazing and should not be excluded from any PvP resto specs.


These 3 are the specs that I would use for the 3 different trees;

Elemental 55 / 16 / 0
Enhancement 12 / 59 / 0
Restoration 0 / 20 / 51


This is just what I think, so please dont go nuts on me if you dont like something that I said.

[Tombstone]

For Resto pvp.

Go for this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...L,RypqO-,10554

And go for mp5.
Crit isn't worth it in pvp imo. 3 Bad non-crit streaks and your through a quarter of your total mana.

All the crit you need is on Tidal Waves with LHW

Drop Grounding, Stoneclaw as much as possible. Have Healing Stream (or cleansing, depending on enemies) up at ALL TIMES. Or use mana spring when you have some time to regain.

Since Earth Shield has 8 charges, it takes ALOT of dispels (and you also have Earthliving, and 1 point in Ancestral Healing) to remove all that and kinda makes Healing Grace overkill.

Healing Wave is very mana efficient, and taking the +25% HW talent can really make the difference.

Crit isn't good? In Arenas case, it's excellent for 3s and 5s. The only time I can ever foresee mp5 being truely better than crit is in 2s, where you're sometimes forced into long drawn out fights. The point of stacking Crit is because in 3s and 5s the match is generall over before you can go blow through mana tide. If you remember correctly, crit > more water shield procs. I've seen some Shaman go mp5, and it works for them depending on their comp, if they are drain comp or a comp with no burst then yeah it works. I ask that you don't force someone into mp5 by telling them Crit isn't worth it in PvP.

[Baabinator]

Crit isn't good? In Arenas case, it's excellent for 3s and 5s. The only time I can ever foresee mp5 being truely better than crit is in 2s, where you're sometimes forced into long drawn out fights. The point of stacking Crit is because in 3s and 5s the match is generall over before you can go blow through mana tide. If you remember correctly, crit > more water shield procs. I've seen some Shaman go mp5, and it works for them depending on their comp, if they are drain comp or a comp with no burst then yeah it works. I ask that you don't force someone into mp5 by telling them Crit isn't worth it in PvP.

Sorry, I indeed meant it for 2v2 arena.

I forgot to say that.

[tears]

ele/destro lock/disc priest works quite fine!

[op3l]

I am just now getting into the ele shaman PvP scene although my experience will be all BG as I both lack the skill and the desire to do Arena.

So my main question is, are ele shamans kind of like powerful turrets but we run away at the slightest hint of danger? Seems to me the more sucessful shamans I've faced always haul ass when i start tossing lightning bolts only to return later to finish me off?

[WaitingforSWTOR]

If you want BG fun as a shaman, elemental is the way to go. Here´s two tips you MUST follow:

1- Never go alone, hide within a 3-5 players pack

2- Remain unnoticed: NEVER drop totems nor use shields unless you start to pew pew. You will be dead meat if you reveal yourself as a shaman too soon. If you feel ignored while your teams rush the enemy, drop totems and drool on 8k LvBursts

Simple? yes, now we go for more specific stuff:

AB-Your place is to defend Lumber Mill ( Thunderstorm giggles). This is the only spot i found myself able to survive any class (specially rogues), even a pack of them. Launch em where they belong! From that place, use Far seer to scout everywhere to look for enemies

WSG- Attack/defend from the roof. Sneak your way up there and pew pew on a safe spot... beware of Dk´s Death Grip, you can be pulled down. If any enemy goes for you, Thunderstorm him . IF you go on the flag carrier pack, drop earthbind while available and flameshock everybody. Protect your flag carrier thunderstorming people off from him

EotS- Well, its common on every BG to stay next to the cliffs, so you can thunderstorm people down ( damn i love that skill the most). Mage tower and BLood elf tower are your friends. Oh, make friendship with a druid and take those flags for profit. Enemies will focus on you so the druid can grab the flag and get away while you die... and if they focus the druid, they made a fatal mistake: pew pew them out

SotA- Defense: get on a turret. Attack: follow vehicles and protect them snaring enemies, or jump in as a passenger and thunderstorm/pew pew

AV/IoC- just follow general tips: never go alone and pew pew unnoticed

[Yukimaru]

IMO, shaman is a class that if you know HOW TO PLAY WELL (had to bold that) is awesome unlike pre nerf pallys, Im an enh shaman and I've solod 1300-1700 rating 2s plenty of times (partner D/C) in BGs there something to watch out for, and are a big threat so long they know what there doing.
ele shamans are nasty, once you see the flame shock on you, your going to get critted, CL, shock, and whatever else they do and youll be almost dead. maybe they'll even run up to you and thunderstorm you the last 5-10% so there another big threat and are something to watch out for near cliffs

for resto shaman, i think there the least to worry about for "threat" in PvP but that's mainly because i haven't seen an amazing one yet but eh.

[elliss]

@ waiting
Just wow ! Don't know what to say to that , if you have to play like that , learn you're class plz that could be the most embarresing post I ever read !
Shamans can be absalot beasts in bgs , learn other classes learn their cds learn how to attack and counter .
I hate queing with other people it forces me to play that much better , can't rely on people you don't know .
There is a reason shamans have one of the highest skill caps in the game , they are not an easy class to play but when played right they are deadly .

[WaitingforSWTOR]

@ waiting
Just wow ! Don't know what to say to that , if you have to play like that , learn you're class plz that could be the most embarresing post I ever read !
Shamans can be absalot beasts in bgs , learn other classes learn their cds learn how to attack and counter .

Chill down bud, those are tips for the OP & elemental spec. Begginer shaman pvper as he is. But looks like "learn other classes learn their cds bla blah is a better advice" from your Pov