Expertise Trouble

[amaric]

I hate having to ask these questions, but I just don't have my head around it.

FWIW here's my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...light&n=Amaric

....... seems the armory is a little messed up atm, helm and chest are wrong
Helm should be: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47689
Chest should be: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47000

So ... my problem. Why is my expertise lopsided? I can't find a clue. It was 23/20 and because I figured it would be a while before I found a drop to improve it, decided to gem some expertise. +20 (Precise Cardinal Ruby) got me to 25/22, guess I still need another but even another won't get the low side to 26!!! wtf do i do.

Looks like my best bet for a gear drop is http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47608

/throws hands up in despair. (hate giving up my agi gems)

Thanks for any help

[Hexus]

You're a human. You get 3 expertise with 1 handed and 2 handed maces.

[kaell]

You're a combat rogue, no need to gem for expertise really. Agility gems will give you more of a DPS increase

[Ian]

You're combat, you don't need to gem expertise.
The reason expertise is so essential for mutilate is because they don't have Surprise Attacks.

[amaric]

I'm not sure what to say other than thank you. /sigh!!

I've been playing this game for 18+ months and it seems I cannot get the 'gist' of the finer points. Through mmo-champion, EJ's and a few others I have read countless volumes of information and theory regarding rogues (and some on other classes) and it seems too much for this guy to assimilate.

Here's where I started before I knew about mmo and ej:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1
I think I was about level 30 something when I started this thread ... as it turned out a char named Pyronis and a few others became 'mentors' to me and helped me grow a rogue 'somewhat properly' .......

....... now though, it seems ... I'm "Frustrated .... Again" again!!

[Vonlego]

Keep in mind using a 1.8 speed off hand as combat is much more of a dps loss than wasting itemization on expertise.

[Asotcha]

can totally identify with the reasearch end of things, in a way im almost looking forward to the changes there gona make to our gear, so we wont need phd's to figure out what to wear, daaaaaaaam spreadsheets are baffling at first sight! i mean i know it all has value and payoff in the end, but atm this is just a normal part of being a rogue, dont worry there are a thousand seekers of the same knowledge

and it all seems to flux on a day to day basis lols

[Spoogles]

There is NOTHING special about being at either Exp or Hit cap...

They are CAPS only to refer to so you do not GO OVER...

If you strive to get to these caps alone then you may find you are unintentionally gimping your other stats to CAP Hit and or Expertise.

The caps are guidelines so you DO NOT GO OVER!

[Deleted]

There is NOTHING special about being at either Exp or Hit cap...

They are CAPS only to refer to so you do not GO OVER...

If you strive to get to these caps alone then you may find you are unintentionally gimping your other stats to CAP Hit and or Expertise.

The caps are guidelines so you DO NOT GO OVER!

This! I'm sitting at 20 Expertise and you know what?...I'm fine, especially as combat with suprise attacks.

[Voij]

There is NOTHING special about being at either Exp or Hit cap...

They are CAPS only to refer to so you do not GO OVER...

If you strive to get to these caps alone then you may find you are unintentionally gimping your other stats to CAP Hit and or Expertise.

The caps are guidelines so you DO NOT GO OVER!

Expertise cap: Don't go over it.
Hitcap:
- Whitecap: Don't go over it.
- Poisoncap: Whether you go over it or not depends, but usually worth it to go over it.
- Specialcap: If you don't go over it, you're doing something very, very, very seriously extremely unbelievably wrong. Hmm... somehow don't think I've stressed that enough yet...

[amaric]

I appreciate the thoughts -

Keep in mind using a 1.8 speed off hand as combat is much more of a dps loss than wasting itemization on expertise.

maybe I should equip http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39714
I'm in the process of experimenting with a Mut build and thought http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47736 MH and http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39714 OH might work .... anyway appreciate the tip.

Seems I recall every .1 (tenth) of weapon speed is worth approximately 10 dps - so adding 40 to webbed deaths dps to compare to Icefall would indicate it 'is' a better choice. I know, I know - use the spreadsheet - in this case Icefall can't be used in the combat sheet since it's really a mutilate weapon (so I've been told).
Nice to know there are other's

Expertise cap: Don't go over it.
Hitcap:
- Whitecap: Don't go over it.
- Poisoncap: Whether you go over it or not depends, but usually worth it to go over it.
- Specialcap: If you don't go over it, you're doing something very, very, very seriously extremely unbelievably wrong. Hmm... somehow don't think I've stressed that enough yet...

Thanks for the 'drill' - getting it 'drilled in'.

So, say I'm sitting at 24/24 exp and an upgrade drops that will push me over the cap - hard to imagine 'not' equipping it because my exp would be over cap. I looked at wowhead for exp gear and seems theres a ton of it coming up for me.

[Vonlego]

Yeah those daggers would work out great for you in a mutilate build. I'd likely be running WD with your mace as well.

Keep in mind that if something is given as an "upgrade" but some stats are wasted, such as going over the expertise cap, the upgrade may not be an upgrade at all until you drop more expertise on other gear. The only way to tell for sure, you guessed it, run the spread sheet. Disclaimer here being obviously a high item level expertise item will be much better than a low item level piece while already expertise capped.

[Spoogles]

the best thing to do is consult your spreadsheet(s)

NO INFORMATION ANYONE GIVES YOU DIRECTED TOWARDS YOUR GEAR CAN BE AS ACCURTE AS THE SPREADSHEET(S) YOU USE!!!

yes there that GOOD!

[amaric]

the best thing to do is consult your spreadsheet(s)

NO INFORMATION ANYONE GIVES YOU DIRECTED TOWARDS YOUR GEAR CAN BE AS ACCURTE AS THE SPREADSHEET(S) YOU USE!!!

yes there that GOOD!

WAT!!! ...... NOT SURE I CAN HEAR YOU!!!

Scroll up please.

..... The only way to tell for sure, you guessed it, run the spread sheet ......

[Spoogles]

just trying to be straight forward n blunt :S its the best I find ! ;D

[Erwin]

I wish all these shitspreaders (c wot I did thar) would go away. If you don't want to give advice to people, fine, don't. There are still many advices to be given which a spreadshit won't ever tell you, for instance fire = bad.

[Voij]

I wish all these shitspreaders (c wot I did thar) would go away. If you don't want to give advice to people, fine, don't. There are still many advices to be given which a spreadshit won't ever tell you, for instance fire = bad.

In which case you'd be stating the obvious and, thus, not be a help either.

And to add to this: Just about all the advice that a spreadsheet can't give you is mentioned in the stickies. So yeah, if someone's too lazy to read them, then there's no reason to help them further. (this case was different, though, as the first question of the OP was answered pretty much right away and his next question can really be answered fastest if he uses a spreadsheet.)

PS: Just because you seem to hate "spreadshits", doesn't mean that it's a bad idea to tell others to use one.

[Vonlego]

Plenty of advice can be given without resorting to "go spread sheet it." Unfortunately many folks are not asking the easy questions, and begin to wonder about more hair line decisions regarding gear, specs, and play style.

When do I drop rupture?
When do I gem armor pen?
When do I drop T8 four piece?
When do I switch to AP/haste gemming over Agi/Crit as ruptureless mutilate?

These are all questions that rarely have a 100% clear cut answer, and folks can usually take an educated guess at the answer, but folks come here asking questions because they want help and want the right answers. If the only time they can get the right answer with 99.9% certainty is to use a spread sheet, all the good rogues will admit that they don't have the knowledge, ability, or even desire to run the napkin math for every player asking a question.

The reason good rogues say "use a spread sheet" is because that is how they would answer the question if they were in the original poster's shoes.