Dual Wield dps!

[mhp]

oh, and i took the liberty of checking your blood spec. i don't really know what kind of spec it is. it is not DPS, because that is the 51/0/20 spec. it is not a PvP spec, because you got a taunt glyph. gear and glyphs seem to form a tank spec, but you missed toughness in frost. i assume it is a tank spec. that incites me for the following hints:

use the 53/8/10 spec. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0ErV...sshhxZ0g0h:diL should help you, although i am not sure about the glyphs. also, until 28% dodge, dodge DR are not that big that you need to gem for parry.

Rune Strike, Death Strike & Dark Death/Vamp. Blood/Icy Touch would be my choices for blood tank glyphs. As for gems, stamina all the way, exp/sta def/sta or similar to make your meta work. Dodge & Parry gems are imo quite weak, especially for blood-sponge spec, and especially when one's below the exp. soft cap.

[Coldbringer]

lol he hasn't been listening to us at all cuz he has 2 fast weapons. get slow weapons man and change that spec. frost/blood/unholy is bad just use this spec dude.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jZG0exAbczf0cuzAofM0hxM

[McSuk]

Hi! I've recently went Dual Wield in frost after playing blood since I started this char. And I think my dps is to low. I have been doing more dps in blood. The only change is the aoe on the welps on onyxia for example. And the bonus haste ofc. So please help me if I'm doing something wrong

Rotations - IT > PS > HB > BS > BS > HB > OB > OB and then from the benining. This rotation is if nothing procs.

Armory link: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...sorrow&n=Tocar

I'd go a bit different on the rotation at the start. Especially since I only use 1 disease, which, for me, has produced a noticable difference, positively.

HB, OB, BS, BS, Attack Power Trinket + Empower Rune Weapon at the same time then:
OB, OB, OB, RP Dump.

If my RP gets too high, I immediately dump, and WHENEVER Killing Machine proc's, I use Frost Strike. When facing more than 1 opponent, or when Rime proc's, I use Howling Blast whenever it's off CD. The numbers are huge are frequent. My Sigil is the one that increases Frost Strike damage and Death Coil damage. Here's my spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...T,Iwa-3O,10894

Scent of Blood is key for my spec as it's impossible to avoid damage. Frost Strike is my main source of damage, even when I use the Sigil that increases Obliterate, Death Strike, and Scourge Strike damage. Having a talent that increases RP generation is very beneficial in that respect. Usually my Frost Strike crits for about 7-9k when both hits are added together. Raid buffed, it can easily reach 10k.

Also, as said before, it's key to use Howling Blast as soon as possible since it's CD is 8 seconds and my disease duration is only 12, but that's the beauty of Rime. 8D

[TWolfeIA]

Get a new(old) Sigil, +damage to your obliterate would(should) yield more dps.

[Coldbringer]

mcSuk why would u get scent of blood that is a waste of talents get, ub and deathchill or imp frost presence for stam. i suggest taking ub though

[mhp]

A frost spec without unbreakable armor is awful. Just awful. That 10% str is pretty noticable, and its only on a 1 min CD. You can have it up for 1/3 of the time, roughly!

That, and if you roll with a blood sub-spec, you even get some AP due to bladed armor.

[catstyle]

No, it is not. Most of your damage as frost will come from auto attacks & Obliterate, both of which benefit greatly from ArP, and both of which are hit capped at ~5% melee hit (assuming MH, as your OH isn't that significant). Even if you have little ArP, it should outweigh the AP you get from the hit trinket once in a blue moon.

Hm, Dont forget Frost-strike (depending on the fight) as one of the main-damage attacks.

[brownie]

Pretty good advice in this thread allready.

For some extra information, please take a good read at this:
http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t64830-d...venge_offhand/

It really is worth a read!

I hope I helped

that's where i got my spec and http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/4195/83735593.jpg <3
i'm horrified that i'm below 2 hunters, even at 5th, with that i'd normally be first but who cares, 3 minute koralon ftw

[Deleted]

HB, OB, BS, BS
OB, OB, OB, RP Dump.

Compare to:

GoD Pest - BS - Ob - Ob
Ob - Ob - Ob

You get:

1 extra Obliterate in place of a HB - one extra opportunity to proc rime
12.5% Extra damage on all obliterates
12.5% extra damage on blood strike
Constant buffed blood plague running
A more powerful frost fever (due to the way GoD works)
More reliable disease uptime and rotation (what if rime doesn't proc for you? That will happen on around 50% of rotations on average so you have to drop another obliterate for a HB)

You lose:

1 blood strike for single target fights
Nothing on aoe fights

[McSuk]

mcSuk why would u get scent of blood that is a waste of talents get, ub and deathchill or imp frost presence for stam. i suggest taking ub though

Because, as I have said before, it is impossible to avoid damage. This talent increases RP, which allows for more Frost Strikes, even though it doesn't give enough RP for 1 Frost Strike, it will stack on itself. Deathchill is nice, but it makes no difference whatsoever towards single target boss fights, which matter. UB, do you mean Unbreakable armor, by this? If so, eh, it just doesn't appeal to me anymore. It may increase strength by 10%, but I've got 2pc T9, and 1 blood strike will have the potential to increase my personal strength by more. Raid buffed, I sit around 1400 strength. Not much, I know, and 2pc T9 gives me 180 strength, which is more than 10%, which rules out UB. Even more so, 2pc T9 has a higher uptime. I heard it procs every 45 seconds, 15 seconds more often than UB, and it's free. Then again, fully raid buffed AND self buffed, I can tip towards 2k strength, theres so many strength buffs Death Knights get. But that doesn't happen enough to matter to me.

[McSuk]

A frost spec without unbreakable armor is awful. Just awful. That 10% str is pretty noticable, and its only on a 1 min CD. You can have it up for 1/3 of the time, roughly!

That, and if you roll with a blood sub-spec, you even get some AP due to bladed armor.

That is blatantly disregarding the 2pc T9 bonus, which is better or worse depending on your personal strength. For UA to be better, a Death Knight would have to have 1800 strength constantly, which Dual Wielding can rarely achieve, simply because of the stat loss that a 2-h can achieve. This is true because the 2pc T9 bonus increases strength by 180, and since UA increases your strength by 10%. And, the tier bonus occurs more often, every 45 seconds I heard, AND it's free. Sure it can stack, but I wouldn't want to give up a blood rune which could have the potential to proc the tier bonus for an ability that gives less strength to me, personally, while having to use blood tap and waste another GCD on top of UA.

And as for your rude post, learn to post which other people's feelings in consideration. Were you hoping to start a flaming battle? >.<

[Deleted]

What are you saying here? That you have to choose between a set bonus or a talent? You know you can have both?

[McSuk]

What are you saying here? That you have to choose between a set bonus or a talent? You know you can have both?

Eh, I'm saying I prefer 180 strength to 150 strength bonus. That's just my Death Knight's personal abilities. And that this bonus occurs more often, is free, and doesn't waste a GCD.

[Deleted]

You can have BOTH though

[Trork]

Hey there, as you might have red from many ppl before me, two fast weapons are bad for. why?

1- Our spells are all instant cast.
2- Our spells are all (except for howling blast) based on weapon damage.
a- Fast weapons have low damage, ie yours: 206-384
b- Slow weapon easily obtainable Aledars Battle star from ToC H, has 297-552 - which will increase significantly your dps.

I would also respec to this for pve dw dps.

[Sensei_Sin]

I guess the question is "Is there another place where you can put a talent point that increases DPS more than Unbreakable Armor?"

[mhp]

For UA to be better, a Death Knight would have to have 1800 strength constantly, which Dual Wielding can rarely achieve, simply because of the stat loss that a 2-h can achieve.

Lets consider a lesser geared DK, say, 1.5k strength, and 14k armor. 5/5 BA gives him ~390 AP, 4/5 BA gives 311, ~79 AP loss. UA gives 150 str (= 300 AP), it being up 1/3 of the time that's 100 AP. That's 21 AP gained in the long run, from the strength part of UA only. If we consider the 25% armor increase, that's 388 AP while UA is up, or 129 AP overall (resulting in ~440 AP from bladed armor average).

Those are rough estimates, but if you add it all up, you'll see that dropping one point from bladed armor, and getting UA will grant you a noticable attack power increase over 5/5 BA.

Granted, you'll do one less blood strike every minute. Boo-hoo. Not a big loss, compared to the gains.

And btw, you can pop UA & BT within a single GCD, so instead of a blood strike, you do UA & BT. Only one GCD wasted, not two.

[mhp]

I guess the question is "Is there another place where you can put a talent point that increases DPS more than Unbreakable Armor?"

And the answer to that question is: no, there is not.

[Sensei_Sin]

And the answer to that question is: no, there is not.

You didn't sell your theory well enough to make me a believer but now I understand where you're coming from.

However, isn't it worth dropping Unbreakable Armor to fill in, for example, Blood Caked Blades in a 53/18 spec?
Given that a frost/unholy spec scales better with gear and that it triumphs over frost/blood at mid-high gear levels, I'm not sure if your theory is always valid.

But I can see that there's a high probability that on lower gear levels it can, indeed, be valid.

Anyone care to crunch them numbers?

[mhp]

You didn't sell your theory well enough to make me a believer but now I understand where you're coming from.

Considering a blood sub-spec, I outlined it quite well in an earlier post, I believe.

However, isn't it worth dropping Unbreakable Armor to fill in, for example, Blood Caked Blades in a 53/18 spec?

Nope, it isn't. 2/3 BcB + UA is better. I'm not gonna do the maths now, but considering BcB is about 4% of one's damage only, and UA provides a significant AP increase, which helps not only your white attacks, but diseses and strikes aswell, even without solid numbers, I'd think that UA grants more DPS than an extra point in BcB.

Besides, someone on EJ must've done the maths anyway, I'd try searching there =)

Given that a frost/unholy spec scales better with gear and that it triumphs over frost/blood at mid-high gear levels, I'm not sure if your theory is always valid.

frost/uh > frost/blood, yeah. I didn't do the math, so not sure if frost/blood is better at any gear level, but at high levels, frost/uh is certainly better.