How to maximize DPS as a frost mage?

[Nachtwarrior]

The only reason to ever drop molten armor is if your crit rate is well over 50% (raid buffed) without it. Even then, I'm not so sure. What else would you use?

glyph of icy veins duh. the ability to remove a slowing effect is such a dps increase that it warrants speccing frost for :

[Nathanos]

The only reason to ever drop molten armor is if your crit rate is well over 50% (raid buffed) without it. Even then, I'm not so sure. What else would you use?

Well I don't know - It was just a stray thought really. :P

[Jademist]

To use Molten Armor Glyph,
or not to use Molten Armor Glyph
THAT is the question.

[Tiga]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#of0wc...0czgfkt:nRiczo

The build I am currently using - I am thinking of swapping out Glyph of Molten Armor though, seeing as Frosts Crit rate is so high just with talents - Its a homemade build and I've never raided as Frost before, so any tips would be appreciated.

That's the build I usually recommend and use myself. On the first wing of Icecrown, I'm actually removing glyph of frostbolt for Lady Deathwhisper, Gunship and Saurfang (replace it with glyph of ice barrier or ice lance).

[Nathanos]

That's the build I usually recommend and use myself. On the first wing of Icecrown, I'm actually removing glyph of frostbolt for Lady Deathwhisper, Gunship and Saurfang (replace it with glyph of ice barrier or ice lance).

I see - Do you have any thoughts on the whole "Glyph of Molten Armor" discussion? I realize the above poster makes a valid point, but could you replace it earlier, or would it gimp your DPS too severely?

[Nathanos]

^

Relevance.

;D

[Otaka]

People get ice barrier as a survivability talent because a dead dps means no dps. If 1gcd could mean you do not healed for X amount of time, and the healers could focus on other dps/tanks, which could mean more dps.

also frost doesnt have any casting interruption reducing talents, while barrier holds your casting isnt delayed. :P

[Skarrd]

That's the build I usually recommend and use myself. On the first wing of Icecrown, I'm actually removing glyph of frostbolt for Lady Deathwhisper, Gunship and Saurfang (replace it with glyph of ice barrier or ice lance).

Why on earth would you do this for any of these fights? I'll give you saurfang cuz it can actually be useful if you happen to get a mark (which is around a 1/5 chance by the end of the fight if your dps is slow). The extra dps on saurfang would probably outweigh glyph of shitbarrier. Also, ice lance still isn't a dps increase. This has not changed. You should literally take less than 50k damage for -all- of deathwhisper, so I don't know why you'd run ice barrier glyph there. Pretty much the same thing for gunship, raid damage is pretty minimal. I mean, you know you can still use ice barrier without the glyph, right?

[Nachtwarrior]

Why on earth would you do this for any of these fights? I'll give you saurfang cuz it can actually be useful if you happen to get a mark (which is around a 1/5 chance by the end of the fight if your dps is slow). The extra dps on saurfang would probably outweigh glyph of shitbarrier. Also, ice lance still isn't a dps increase. This has not changed. You should literally take less than 50k damage for -all- of deathwhisper, so I don't know why you'd run ice barrier glyph there. Pretty much the same thing for gunship, raid damage is pretty minimal. I mean, you know you can still use ice barrier without the glyph, right?

nuhuh, why you lyin bro? ice barrier is the most super awesome raid spell ever. it makes me not take damage which i shouldn't be taking anyway if i was halfway decent and it does zero damage for a GCD. IT IS SUPER AWESOMEZOR!?!?!?!!!!1!1!111!11111

[Swiftz]

respecc?

[Pedarsen]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#o0xVc...ofu0c0gfkt:Rin

No need for ice barrier.

[Tiga]

Why on earth would you do this for any of these fights? I'll give you saurfang cuz it can actually be useful if you happen to get a mark (which is around a 1/5 chance by the end of the fight if your dps is slow). The extra dps on saurfang would probably outweigh glyph of shitbarrier. Also, ice lance still isn't a dps increase. This has not changed. You should literally take less than 50k damage for -all- of deathwhisper, so I don't know why you'd run ice barrier glyph there. Pretty much the same thing for gunship, raid damage is pretty minimal. I mean, you know you can still use ice barrier without the glyph, right?

I'll admit the ice lance glyph is extremely weak. That's why ice barrier might be better. Thing is, I noticed that at least on 10 man, kiting the cult fanatics is a valid option, freeing up tanks for other jobs. I used it on 10 man last week, but not on 25. The spellstealable buff there is a 25% damage increase and it heals you for 300% of the damage you do.

On gunship, you are shooting frostbolts across to the other ship (axe throwers), so the snare adds 12% damage after your first frostbolt, but the glyph would only add 5% to all. The gunship is not that important anyway since it's so easy at the moment.

On Saurfang, the frostbolt snare is very useful on the blood beasts and if you have two or more mages (others being arcane or fire/ttw), the snare will activate TTW for all the mages. A stronger ice barrier will reduce the amount of energy the boss gains.

If you are not kiting the blood beasts on Saurfang, keep the frostbolt glyph. If you decide to switch glyphs for Saurfang, you might want to consider switching a few fights earlier. Glyphs are relatively cheap, so it makes sense to have something marginally useful in there instead of just an empty glyph slot.

We don't have a lot of good options for DPS glyphs. Ice lance is much weaker than molten armor, so I would keep molten armor. It's less valuable than for the other specs, but it's still our third best choice.

[Skarrd]

Frostbolt glyph on saurfang makes a decent bit of sense if you don't have an earthbind, trap, or a knockback. I still don't really see a reason for ever using ice barrier glyph (or kiting fanatics for that matter, what the fuck else would your tanks do? <.<)?

On an unrelated note, that spellstealable buff from fanatics on deathwhisper is ballin. I healed myself for 1.2 million, 100% overhealing though. Will be nice for hardmode and ill probably use a mouseover focus macro so i can keep an eye on the buffs more easily.

[Nathanos]

On Saurfang, the frostbolt snare is very useful on the blood beasts and if you have two or more mages (others being arcane or fire/ttw), the snare will activate TTW for all the mages. A stronger ice barrier will reduce the amount of energy the boss gains.

In regards to the TTW, I was under the impression that Frostbolt still applied the snare that triggers it, even while Glyphed? It just doesn't actually snare.

Or did I totally misread your post and were you just saying that the Frostbolt snare is good in general on DBS?

[Skarrd]

In regards to the TTW, I was under the impression that Frostbolt still applied the snare that triggers it, even while Glyphed? It just doesn't actually snare.

Or did I totally misread your post and were you just saying that the Frostbolt snare is good in general on DBS?

It applies it's effect at a rate of 0% so it can still proc FoF. I've read a number of times that it does not proc ttw, though I've never tested it myself. This is while glyphed, ofc.

[Nathanos]

It applies it's effect at a rate of 0% so it can still proc FoF. I've read a number of times that it does not proc ttw, though I've never tested it myself. This is while glyphed, ofc.

Hmm, see I've heard it DOES proc TTW. Suppose I have some testing to do then. Haven't really noticed anything in raids seeing as we always run with a Warrior tank, Thunder Clap rules the world.

[Tiga]

Test it yourself or trust me: if you glyph frostbolt, you lose TTW on untanked targets. Glyph of frostbolt is a 3% overall increase in boss DPS, but it can be a DPS loss (or just neutral) on some fights, depending on how many targets can be snared and how many are tanked.

Also: If all you have to say is "why would anyone spec frost", don't post. You're not bringing anything new to the discussion. It's a matter of choice and if it's not your preference to play frost, I'm absolutely fine with that.

[Nathanos]

I think I'll trust you Tiga

Know you from the WoW forums - Hardcore Frost raider :B

[Armond]

Tiga - why is this? I'd test it myself, but I'm busy trying to figure out what kind of damage my Fireballs would do in a raid situation. Last I checked, Frostbolt glyph was specifically coded to allow TTW, FoF, etc to still work with it. (It still provides a snare - which you can see - but the snare's strength is reduced to 0%.)

[nerfproof]

Actually the glyph does not activate TtW, which is why it's pointless to test ur dps as frost spec with that glyph on test dummies.