Wondering about Bear Tanking..

[Skyyline]

Ok, i know bear tanks have been called bad tanks in ICC because of the 20% less dodge debuff but Blood Legion and Paragon both have Bear Tanks destroying and laughing at bosses while killing them. Anyone care to explain to me how druids are better then any other tank still?

[kitteh]

Because there is less dodge, the bosses don't hit as hard due to the lack of mitigation. Since the bosses don't hit as hard and the only other real stat for feral tanks is armor and stamina, stamina stacking is the best. And since bears usually have the most stamina and armor out of every other tank they can take the most hits but still won't be hit as hard, giving healers more time to heal. There might be something that I missed but there is a post on the wowforums about it that I remember reading a few months ago before 3.3

[Skild]

Only reply one thing to whoever tell you that Feral Druid sucks in ICC:

http://wowthinktank.blogspot.com/200...nce-bears.html

[getefix]

Ok, i know bear tanks have been called bad tanks in ICC because of the 20% less dodge debuff but Blood Legion and Paragon both have Bear Tanks destroying and laughing at bosses while killing them. Anyone care to explain to me how druids are better then any other tank still?

Bear tanks are smarter than other tanks. I don't know why or how, it just happened that way.

[Deleted]

ICEcrown citadel cant do druid tanks anything, we got alot fur

[rabbimojo]

Bear tanks are smarter than other tanks. I don't know why or how, it just happened that way.

Probably something to do with having nothing to think about while tanking. ;P Frees up a lot of time for soul-searching.

(I half-keed. I love raiding with my bear tank. But srs.)

[rated]

Ok, i know bear tanks have been called bad tanks in ICC because of the 20% less dodge debuff but Blood Legion and Paragon both have Bear Tanks destroying and laughing at bosses while killing them. Anyone care to explain to me how druids are better then any other tank still?

So these top guilds are running with druid tanks and you still dont believe they're best ? ;p

[Mlekar]

Ok, i know bear tanks have been called bad tanks in ICC because of the 20% less dodge debuff but Blood Legion and Paragon both have Bear Tanks destroying and laughing at bosses while killing them. Anyone care to explain to me how druids are better then any other tank still?

Well, the smart ferals were not complaining about the ICC debuff. We just re-gem any remaining combined gems for pure 30 stam. Even with the -20% dodge debuff, any end-game geared druid tank with proper enchants and glyphs will have approximately 35% dodge (due to generous agility budget on items we setal from rouges...) while in raid plus circa 7% for boss to miss coming from defense. And having avoidance 40-45% isn't that bad either. And that is just for starters of course, we are just getting to the best part...

If properly geared and tanking in guild able to clear ICC (or most of it - we are currently at Dreamwalker), druid tank will be closing to 70k hp when fully raid buffed. Personally I have 67k (and still missing heroic Satrina and using Heart of Iron). And then, when shit happens and the boss is going to use some of his pwning ability, you just hit the magical button and guess what... your healers will just love to heal the beast with hp closing to 100k or even slightly beyond. At that stage, you are almost indestructible, at least for that 20seconds. Not to mention if you combine that with Barskin.

Sweating it with some 37k armor in bear form, guess why the smart ferals were not crying on forums. Those who enjoyed tanking in vanilla WoW as a bear know how bad it was, how underestimated we were and thus we like to keep a low profile indeed... And those stam numbers are for Alliance of course, Horde has the adventage as always... with their insane +5% hp buff for Tauren. I would gladly trade it for my chance to be missed and for a plenty of gold I have.

[Richmond]

Well, the smart ferals were not complaining about the ICC debuff. We just re-gem any remaining combined gems for pure 30 stam. Even with the -20% dodge debuff, any end-game geared druid tank with proper enchants and glyphs will have approximately 35% dodge (due to generous agility budget on items we setal from rouges...) while in raid plus circa 7% for boss to miss coming from defense. And having avoidance 40-45% isn't that bad either. And that is just for starters of course, we are just getting to the best part...

If properly geared and tanking in guild able to clear ICC (or most of it - we are currently at Dreamwalker), druid tank will be closing to 70k hp when fully raid buffed. Personally I have 67k (and still missing heroic Satrina and using Heart of Iron). And then, when shit happens and the boss is going to use some of his pwning ability, you just hit the magical button and guess what... your healers will just love to heal the beast with hp closing to 100k or even slightly beyond. At that stage, you are almost indestructible, at least for that 20seconds. Not to mention if you combine that with Barskin.

Sweating it with some 37k armor in bear form, guess why the smart ferals were not crying on forums. Those who enjoyed tanking in vanilla WoW as a bear know how bad it was, how underestimated we were and thus we like to keep a low profile indeed... And those stam numbers are for Alliance of course, Horde has the adventage as always... with their insane +5% hp buff for Tauren. I would gladly trade it for my chance to be missed and for a plenty of gold I have.

I call shenanigans

Armory link or all this is lies. You have 37k armor whilst still stacking stamina?? Really?

Smart druids dont stack just stamina, smart druids have a healthy balance of agility and stamina. If you can survive 2 hits from the hardest hitting boss without getting floored, then you have enough HP. Anything above is just a waste and you should really find new healers if they expect you to take 3 (That would be about 2-3 seconds without a decent heal).

Blindly stacking stamina is only good for getting yourself into pugs so you can get the fan boys to kneel down and go 'wowzors dis guy as gots 67k HP ZOMG'. If you sit above 61k HP fully raid buffed, your already about 3k higher than Warriors and DK's can hope to achieve in the same Ilvl gear, so anything above is just a waste and could easily be swapped out for extra agility (Threat, avoidance, Mitigation)

[Ubar]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Thrall&cn=Ubar

i sit at ~36k armor and 35% dodge raid buffed (using a different trinket)....

[Mlekar]

I call shenanigans

Armory link or all this is lies. You have 37k armor whilst still stacking stamina?? Really?

Smart druids dont stack just stamina, smart druids have a healthy balance of agility and stamina. If you can survive 2 hits from the hardest hitting boss without getting floored, then you have enough HP. Anything above is just a waste and you should really find new healers if they expect you to take 3 (That would be about 2-3 seconds without a decent heal).

Blindly stacking stamina is only good for getting yourself into pugs so you can get the fan boys to kneel down and go 'wowzors dis guy as gots 67k HP ZOMG'. If you sit above 61k HP fully raid buffed, your already about 3k higher than Warriors and DK's can hope to achieve in the same Ilvl gear, so anything above is just a waste and could easily be swapped out for extra agility (Threat, avoidance, Mitigation)

I disagree with you when you say it is waste to have that extra bit of stam/hp when it goes down to quality of raiding. Here and now, I would like to bring to public the very nice general statement I used to hear long time ago. "Behind each and every brave, strong a succesfull tank is one (or two) nervous, tattered and exhausted healer." To combat that and to bring at least some comfort of game to my healer(s) when bosses are hitting anything between 10k-30k, I strongly think that that bit more of stamina helps them to have even some fun when raiding. And THAT is really important, because it is a GAME and it should be a FUN.

Regarding the armor, just yeaterday when I looked at my char when in ICC10, I saw that I have around 37k armor, my mitigation against lvl 80 was something like 70.2%.I admitt, that I do not know if I was under effect of any spell increasing armor, but I was not in combat at that time, but definitely armor buff from pally/shammy was applied. And that is the second important part, I'm not sure whether you got it that I'm talking about raid stats, but it seems to me that you are comparing raid stamina buffed situation with unbuffed armor which is a nonsense. You are either slacking at Dalaran without raid buffs (and armor is a raid buff as well as a Fortitude or BoK) or you are in raid fighting.

I never said that I had exactly xxx armor at exact situation nor saying whether with or without buffs and yet you acccused me of lying. I think I have now the idea how you get 77 posts.

Anyway, you can find my armory on EU Drak'thul, guild K o K under this nick indeed.

And regarding the enormous amount of hp, I'm playing on server where raiding horde vs alliance ratio is like a 8:1. When attempting Wintergraps, we usually have 20+ buffs for being outnumbered. With few raid buffs and popping my Survival up, I topped 700k hp. And I liked that.

Have a nice weekend and thanks for constructive answer.

M.

[Richmond]

@ Mlekar

I do not come on these forum's to Troll, if you would take a moment to look at my previous posts, you'll see that i actually take time and consider my posts and offer constructive advice to threads that i post in.

In the gear you are currently sat in, whilst still having 67k HP, even raid buffed (With the armor buff from either a paladin or shaman totem) reaching 37k armor is highly unlikely. I'd say more like 33k (before procs).

And i'd like to apologise if you read into my previous post too much, i was abit pissed off. But it is slightly annoying when you come on here and tell them that all the smart druids are stacking stamina, because thats really not the case. Does that not make me smart because i dont blindly stack all stamina? No, it doesn't.

Not sure where that wintergrasp comment came from because i didn't mention that or PVP.

To wrap it up, very nice gear, i'm jealous if i'm honest.

Without being sarcastic, you are slightly below the hit cap, but you probably already know that. Hard to get to it with T10!

[littlepiggy]

And i'd like to apologise if you read into my previous post too much, i was abit pissed off. But it is slightly annoying when you come on here and tell them that all the smart druids are stacking stamina, because thats really not the case. Does that not make me smart because i dont blindly stack all stamina? No, it doesn't.

you say not to come here and say smart druids stack stamina, yet you say that smart druids mix? way to contradict yourself bud. It's quite funny how these forums swear by using socket bonus's and mixing agi/stam, yet WoW druid forums swear by stacking stamina.. assuming a new druid does good research, they are going to be confused (which is why we always have agi vs stam debates)

[MushroomBomb]

Bear tanks are smarter than other tanks. I don't know why or how, it just happened that way.

Exactly. We focus on all the best stats, even. We don't bother with trifle attributes such as Defense, Parry rating or Block rating. Heck, the other tank classes have to dress up in plated armour weighing double their weight just to survive a single blow. Tanking is what we're born to do ;D

[baseball]

It's quite funny how these forums swear by using socket bonus's and mixing agi/stam, yet WoW druid forums swear by stacking stamina..

No good druid advocates stacking stamina without regard to anything else. it's *often* the best choice, but certainly not *always* the best choice.

[arel00]

No good druid advocates stacking stamina without regard to anything else. it's *often* the best choice, but certainly not *always* the best choice.

QFT.

In short: smart druids know how to balance their stats. If that makes them going full stamina, full agility, or a mix of them, it's all down to that specific player and his specific situation.

And this is why stamina vs avoidance discussions are pointless.

[Cheezee]

Biggest health bar/e-peen wins World of Warcraft.

[Syph]

In short: smart druids know how to balance their stats. If that makes them going full stamina, full agility, or a mix of them, it's all down to that specific player and his specific situation.

And this is why stamina vs avoidance discussions are pointless.

I couldnt agree more with this.. could we now please put an end to discussions regarding stam vs. avoidance?

[Erutan]

Running gag in our guild: You know why Druids are so overpowerd? Because the secretary of the main developer at blizzard plays one.....

On subject...

Less dodge impacts all tanks. All tanking classes use dodge. Less dodge = less mitigation for ALL tanks....
The huge HP-pool of druids helps. Also druids know how to rely on "oh crap" capabilities because they are used to use them, because they have so limited other things to do.....

[Koffie]

I do always love this discussion with stamina only or stamine/Agi stacking (and even the rare onyl Agi stacking )
As I only tank very little but decend enough geared my thing is always to go for some Agi also next to stamina if the socket bonus is nice.
As a primarely healer I do like if the tank sometimes is just beeing missed so I can get a few seconds without casting a heal (break cast before landing like in the old days). saves me atleast tons of mana wasted.
Luky me this discussion will be ther euntil the end of times (or WoW atleast) unless something drasticly changes. There will always be bosses preferering high avoidance and others high stamina for attacks that are not avoidable.