Will cata heroics be heroic?

[IDE]

I want something on par with the difficulty levels of TBC heroics. The whole point of heroic mode is that it's supposed to be challenging. Even when we didn't severely out gear these instances they weren't up to the standard.

The average tard shouldn't be farming heroics. I want it to take some level (however small) of coordination to complete these "heroic mode" dungeons. Crap like loken's mechanic getting nerfed should never happen. Don't let the people that lick windows walk in and do hard mode anything. When you zone in there should be some kind of excitement and wondering about whether this team has what it takes to complete the instance or are they a bunch of sausage fingered inept mouth breathers.

The possibility of failure is what keeps it fresh longer.



However I don't expect to see anything different than what we've gotten recently. So feel free to invite your grandmother to dual box some H farm sessions in cata.

[ohshift]

I want something on par with the difficulty levels of TBC heroics.

go raid then

[talrob]

TBC heroics where only hard because:

a) They were new and no one expected the level of challenge.

b) Tanks didn't have faceroll aoe threat abilities.

Short answer : no
Long answer : no they won't

[Grimbold]

Use the search button.

There was alrdy one topic made about this today.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

is this the same as will cata epics be epic?

if so: no

if not: still no :/

[LonestarHero]

I imagine the heroics will be heroic for those who recently dinged level 85.

[Itsdarkandcoldoutside]

They will be at first just as Wotlk were at first and tbc were at first. Remember doing watch him die or quick demise or gotta go back in blue gear before the nerfs?

[Lightworker]

Heroic Old Hillsbrad was very heroic in TBC. To the point where a lot of people were too scared to run it.

[sulfuric]

Ghostcrawler said their wish in cataclysm is to simplify the game. Wotlk was too simple for just about everyone I know, what on earth is making you think Cataclysm will take any steps in a direction WOTLK has not been taking us?

[Ytinasni]

go raid then

Will cata raids be on par with the difficulty of TBC heroics?

The point is wotlk was very low in difficulty ulduar was proabably the hardest instance most casual guilds couldnt down yogg (pre nerfs) and thats how it should be leave the first half of the instances easier and make the last half hard so that people in casual guilds who want to see yogg fall will have to do the first half of toc to kill him.

Hardmodes are spot on, they are for the hardcore players.

heroic 5mans are a joke.

I dont want bc heroic difficulty, I want some challenge though, pre nerf loken difficulty, H azjol herub difficulty.
make some of the last bosses hard like achievement versions of wrath bosses (chaos theory, respect your elders(post bugfix pre nerf), watch him die) for example. those are all tuned perfectly and are alot of fun to do.

[conscript]

WotLK heroics were difficult and still are difficult for people in appropriate gear. If they aren't hard for you they aren't intended for you. TBC heroics were only difficult because they required you to either vastly over gear the instance or bring 3 CC dps classes and a paladin tank. And even then there were about three that were difficult pre-MGT.

In fact I would be intrigued to see people list which BC heroics they found difficult because outside of MGT Arcatraz and SH were the only tough ones and only because SH had constant like 6 pulls of mobs.

[conceit2]

Short answer : no
Long answer : no they won't

QFT :')

[Joarrak]

TBC heroics where only hard because:

a) They were new and no one expected the level of challenge.

b) Tanks didn't have faceroll aoe threat abilities.

Short answer : no
Long answer : no they won't

Actually those were no where near the problems with TBC heroics. I knew that they were hard from other people, and mobs hit a lot harder, making healers have to spam their biggest heals and drink after every pull, and dps'ers cc. Player abilities was definitely not the biggest contributer to heroics being easier in wotlk than tbc.

[IDE]

Use the search button.

There was alrdy one topic made about this today.

I'm glad you felt compelled to post that even though there isn't a topic about this on the front page. Are the rest of your 800+ posts as poignant and enlightening?



As for what on earth makes me think they might make things a little different is that maybe the B team might be a little nostalgic for some challenge? Or perhaps it was them that made things the way they are now. I don't know at what point they took over.


They can create all new and clever ways to make it more challenging for all I care it doesn't just have to be a gear check or cc issue exclusively. But this expansion definitely felt like the heroics were the normals.

[Narveid]

They can create all new and clever ways to make it more challenging for all I care it doesn't just have to be a gear check or cc issue exclusively. But this expansion definitely felt like the heroics were the normals.

And the raids the heroics ... and the hard modes the raids .... OMG!

[Tweep]

WotLK heroics were difficult and still are difficult for people in appropriate gear. If they aren't hard for you they aren't intended for you. TBC heroics were only difficult because they required you to either vastly over gear the instance or bring 3 CC dps classes and a paladin tank. And even then there were about three that were difficult pre-MGT.

In fact I would be intrigued to see people list which BC heroics they found difficult because outside of MGT Arcatraz and SH were the only tough ones and only because SH had constant like 6 pulls of mobs.

the agro wipe after the mc on the second boss in heroic slabs was pretty Shitacular

[carlos5577]

So many people keep saying that wotlk instances are easy, they are easy due to gear inflation and not the way they were designed. Top (used to be) hard heroics (people were still traumatized of oculus lol, that is, till they nerfed it to the ground) are:
1.Oculus
2.OK
3.AN (first boss and the unagroable adds)
4.HoS (brann event)
5.UP (skadi)
6.HoL (loken's lightning and the WW adds that killed your melee)
7.Gundrak (the snake boss)

not to mention getting a red drake was hard at first (sure some were buged and were easier but some were hard like the oculus ones)

[Polution]

What I don't understand is why Blizzard doesn't fix it...

They make the game easy to please the majority, and the majority of what I see is people complaining that the game is TOO easy. I never saw this much bitching in Burning Crusade. Ten mans were a GREAT idea. I won't argue against that. If Blizzard is so intent on pleasing the majority, they need to make the game's dificulty increase all together. Getting gold is retardedly easy now, along with any other PvE activity.

[flashur]

So many people keep saying that wotlk instances are easy, they are easy due to gear inflation and not the way they were designed. Top (used to be) hard heroics (people were still traumatized of oculus lol, that is, till they nerfed it to the ground) are:
1.Oculus
2.OK
3.AN (first boss and the unagroable adds)
4.HoS (brann event)
5.UP (skadi)
6.HoL (loken's lightning and the WW adds that killed your melee)
7.Gundrak (the snake boss)

not to mention getting a red drake was hard at first (sure some were buged and were easier but some were hard like the oculus ones)

I have to disagree.

1. Occulus was really never hard. People didn't enjoy doing it because a) the annoying amount of mounting dismounting a vehicular drake between pulls (why I hate it), or b) they didn't like facing a boss which didn't require any of their class mechanics.
2. OK was fine. A lot of trash and can easily mispull, but the bosses themselves weren't difficult.
3. The adds were annoying, but a simple mark for the first target of each set ws more than enough.
4. This could prove challenging. It wasn't as easy, but it wasn't hard to defeat. The only hard part at the beginning was tthe achievement.
5. Skadi was never a problem. The adds in the gauntlet were easy enough. Moving from his WW was the only difficult part.
6. Loken's lightning required some movement, ok. I actually saw a lot of people mess up onthis so I'll give you that.
7. Wasn't hard to kill, but yea, usually saw at least 1 person die before the kill.

I'm guessing you mean the bronze drake. There were a couple of hard elements about the heroics to begin with, but I think most people were able to clear the heroics in their tier 6. The achievements were a lot harder though.

I think the point people are trying to make about heroics was the trash in it moreso than the bosses. The bosses were generally fine, maybe could have been a tad harder, but I guess that's what the achievments are for. The trash on the other hand have basically been an aoefest. I remember trying some heroics around when my guild at the time started Karazhan. I had to kite one of the large naga in Slave Pens because two of them hit too hard on the tank. The felguards in the second room with the boss on SL were quite nasty. Lots of the trash towards the end of Arca. The boglords at the end of steamvault hit incredibly hard before they were nerfed. Would have been nice to have similar trash to this in WotLK.

Granted we would outgear them by a mile now anyway, and they are designed for naxx 10 level, but they should still have been harder. I actually found the heroics of TBC very entertaining for a long time. I guess they were toned down similarly to raid content. Remember that the ilevel is the same as Naxx10, similarly to how TBC heroic level was the same as Karazhan.

[Ultralisk]

Heroic Old Hillsbrad was very heroic in TBC. To the point where a lot of people were too scared to run it.

A lot of things were very heroic. Sure, you could run Slave Pens over and over, but Shadow Labs required a ton of coordination, good dps AND good CC. Heroic Blood Furnace had those orange felguards that could literally one-shot a Kara-geared tank. Shattered Halls had the stream of adds that required epic skills to tank on anything but a paladin. Arcatraz groups usually fell apart at the first (optional) boss guy.

Wrath heroics are on par with Burning Crusade non-heroics. They've done too good a job with making them all equal difficulty. I really hope that in Cata they'll go right from the start with a 5-man progression, as they've sort of done in Wrath with Original 5-mans -> ToC5 -> ICC5.

Edit:

I'm guessing you mean the bronze drake. There were a couple of hard elements about the heroics to begin with, but I think most people were able to clear the heroics in their tier 6. The achievements were a lot harder though.

No, he means the red protodrake that you get for the Glory of the Hero meta-achievement.