Rawr's trinket decision

[Needonboots]

As my main is a tank, not really knowing how to judge DPS stats, I've popped my mage into rawr with my available gear, and it's given me the outset you can now see.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...&n=sacrificeme

Now I'm confused. I have in my bags the Abyssal Rune from ToC5 normal. How does the Int trinket outweigh the Abyssal Rune? I know some people use rawr religiously, so for now I'm trusting it, but I'd rather know the philosophies behind how I'm gearing!

[Ironfeet]

The only reason I can think of is Rawr calculates it as average damage (from the cooldown) over a period of time, which can be misleading. Basically it means you pop it whenever its up and will be able to do more damage because of this fact.

This only works for a Patchwork type fight though where you can continuously DPS the boss and doesn't take into account you may not be able to damage the boss at certain points, or blow your cooldown on adds, or even want to wait until heroism to blow cooldowns. It simply takes the average (of using it when off cooldown) and calculates from there.

Bottom Line: Rawr is not a substitute for brains. You will have to test yourself to see which is better for each individual fight.

[Rugz]

It balances out in the end since you can't control the Abyssal Rune proc either, you could proc it just before a Tear Gas and waste the ICD.

Rawr is not a substitue for brains but that doesn't mean it's wrong based on hunches.

[Ironfeet]

It balances out in the end since you can't control the Abyssal Rune proc either, you could proc it just before a Tear Gas and waste the ICD.

Rawr is not a substitue for brains but that doesn't mean it's wrong based on hunches.

But you can control the proc on the Int trinket. So...for fights where you where boss damage might be intermittent you may want that. Where it is sustained damage uptime on the boss, the other might do better since it's random.

Thank you for proving my point

[litledude]

It's better because of the increase in mana, the little bit of spell power you get from Mind Mastery(I think thats what its called) and how you can use they CD with your other CDs.

Although if your mage is an alt and doesnt have the Spyglass, DFO, or the Reign, it would be great to use both the Abyssal Rune and ToR.

[Rugz]

The tone of your previous post implied you thought Abyssal Rune was better (to me).

[rathofvol]

The tone of your previous post implied you thought Abyssal Rune was better (to me).

Talisman will give you a decent chunk of SP and crit. On top of that, it gives you a butt-load of mana, meaning you may not have to evocate for a fight. Also, stacking the on use effect with 4p t10, IV, Heroism, Arcane Power, and a pot will make you cry tears of joy.

[usiris]

This only works for a Patchwork type fight though where you can continuously DPS the boss and doesn't take into account you may not be able to damage the boss at certain points, or blow your cooldown on adds, or even want to wait until heroism to blow cooldowns. It simply takes the average (of using it when off cooldown) and calculates from there.

they fixed'd that.

you can now put in the time between moving and the amount of time you will be moving.

also when taking haste and int, into account you have to put in what stats you had before, if you have a lower amount of haste it may recommend the rune, if your in the middle, the talisman, and also the talisman if your up into the 1300+
and that the talisman also stacks with kings and all other sorts of fun stuff to up your Int and in turn sp

[usiris]

why would it waste the CD on Tear Gas? if your a good mage you should be invising out of Tear Gas to do dmg while everyone else is stunned

hes talking about the random proc of the rune, not activating the talisman

[Rugz]

Putri was a bad example, the point is that procs are wasted in the same way as on use effects have longer CDs.

[Figoment]

hes talking about the random proc of the rune, not activating the talisman

If you would actually read his post you would see that it doesn't matter.

[Needonboots]

Although if your mage is an alt and doesnt have the Spyglass, DFO, or the Reign, it would be great to use both the Abyssal Rune and ToR.

Hence why I posted my armoury Picked up the Spyglass today, so I had the Spyglass, the Triumph hit trinket, Abyssal Rune, and Talisman of Resurgence. It had me equip some sidegrade armor to include hit so I could drop the hit trinket (which is fair enough, trinkets rock!)

This thread hasn't answered too much though, except perhaps rawr values on use effects higher than random (but pretty consistent) procs.

[Rugz]

Well what answer are you looking for? ToR is better for a mage statwise than Abyssal Rune. What reason do you have for thinking otherwise?

[Ironfeet]

you can now put in the time between moving and the amount of time you will be moving.

But did the OP take this into account on a per fight basis? I'm doubting it.

[Jarob22]

It's because Rawr has you running OOM in the fight situation you have set up (or not set up). Try enabling these: judgement of wisdom, replenishment; in buffs. That way Rawr won't think you go out of mana.

[Needonboots]

Well what answer are you looking for? ToR is better for a mage statwise than Abyssal Rune. What reason do you have for thinking otherwise?

That's what I'm asking though, how is some more int more valuable than a pile of haste and a more regular spellpower proc

It's because Rawr has you running OOM in the fight situation you have set up (or not set up). Try enabling these: judgement of wisdom, replenishment; in buffs. That way Rawr won't think you go out of mana.

That could be it, I know piss all about rawr :P I'll give that a go

[DirewolfX]

Rawr will likely still give you the same answer. Unless you're severely lacking in haste, Talisman of Resurgence will surpass Abyssal Rune.

128 intellect is not a bad deal for arcane. You will get ~20 sp, a bit of crit (I think about .75%) and more mana (which reduces how often you need to evocate--not just because you have a greater starting mana pool and more mana back on evocate; you also get more back from replenishment, which is huge).

84 haste is definitely great for Arcane (and probably stronger than the 128 intellect on its own).

The proc is really what pushes Talisman of Resurgence above Abyssal Rune. The uptime is going to be approximately the same: 10 sec/45 ICD, but it won't proc as soon as it's off cooldown every time versus 20 sec/2 min. The damage is pretty similar (ToR has 9 more damage on its proc). The trick is that you can control when you proc the ToR. You will never lose proc time to non-random fight mechanics and you can line it up with Arcane Power, IV and/or Heroism (AP alone makes it worth an extra ~125 sp).

A lot of the reason ToR is better than Abyssal Rune is the 45 item levels. No one doubts that an ilvl 245 version of Abyssal Rune would dominate Talisman of Resurgence (since hey, the ilvl 264 and ilvl 277 versions are best in slot--Dislodged Foreign Object).

[Needonboots]

Thank you Direwolf, that covered more or less what I was after

Stil gonna play with rawr to check, but it makes a bit more sense (along wit ha few other posters too)

[usiris]

If you would actually read his post you would see that it doesn't matter.

why doesn't it matter? the fact that he was confused and i simply answered? or is it that him not knowing is going to solve the issue at hand.

while i agree that if the rune proced a the time in question it would be a nice boast, but you should not be procing the talisman at that time.

[joeyhsk]

Totally disagree with direwolf, firstly ilvl means nothing (fetish of volatile power ilvl245 anyone?)

Secondly 20 sec/2min = 10sec/1min, which is 15 seconds slower than the ICD 45 sec. You may say that it does not proc immediately after the ICD is off but at the rate an arcane mage casts spells. It is nearly 100% that the proc comes within these 15 secs.

Also having more haste on abyssal rune, will lead up to you being able to keep up 2pct10.

Also you will not use your trinket (ToR) immediately everytime its off cooldown.

Also the amount of mana difference from using that trinket in a raid buff environment is only about 1.5k mana which isnt that much if you know how to control your mana.