Lich King 25 heroic still Undeafeated by anyone else than Paragon

[hoot80]

Think your getting confused, its 2 different issues.

Number 2) *using the buff* is having the 5% damage/healing/health buff provided now in ICC
Number 3) Cancelling buffs is a tactic used to allow infest to be healed more easily, by cancelling health increasing buffs after infest is cast, healers do not need to heal as much health to remove the debuff

But the point of all that is, who cares? It's not an exploit, simply clever use of in game mechanics. How is that any different than a tank canceling Fort when going into P3 Anub'arak Hard mode? I don't see how this could possibly be considered any kind of bug or exploit. Whether they did it or not is a moot point. They killed him, no one else can with any strategy that they are using. Grats to Paragon on a very impressive victory and whether you ever kill him without the buff you will always have the world first kill at least 2 weeks ahead of anyone else. I tip my hat to you for a job very well done and am looking forward to the jaw dropping video that will be released in the near future.

[Waterisbest]

Where are the people who said LK25hc will go down within the 1st week of release? It's been 2+ months, 1 guild killed him and they are doing it with the buff. He is soooooooo damn easy! :

People call WotLK easy. It's ironic the 2 most tough bosses ever are from WotLK, LK25hc and Yogg+0. Not to mention some other awesome very tough fights FF, KKKoW, Algalon, Anub hc, PP hc, Sind hc, LDW hc, OS+3d.

Removing fortitude in the middle of the fight is not an exploit. I am pretty sure every guild is doing it if it helps during a spell. It's called using the right tactic.

[Bloodrose]

Such anger in this thread. The passion of fanboys is quite scary at times, although I kinda wish I had popcorn to watch the flame war commence.

[Idaho Immortal]

Where are the people who said LK25hc will go down within the 1st week of release? It's been 2+ months, 1 guild killed him and they are doing it with the buff. He is soooooooo damn easy! :

People call WotLK easy. It's ironic the 2 most tough bosses ever are from WotLK, LK25hc and Yogg+0. Not to mention some other awesome very tough fights FF, KKKoW, Algalon, Anub hc, PP hc, Sind hc, LDW hc, OS+3d.

Removing fortitude in the middle of the fight is not an exploit. I am pretty sure every guild is doing it if it helps during a spell. It's called using the right tactic.

all the uld hard modes except firefighter and algalon are easy. ldw is easy just a matter of proper execution of your role in raid, not even that hectic.

firefighter and algalon are easy in good gear. OS3d was never hard.

[Herecius]

all the uld hard modes except firefighter and algalon are easy. ldw is easy just a matter of proper execution of your role in raid, not even that hectic.

firefighter and algalon are easy in good gear. OS3d was never hard.

OS3D was unflatteringly brutal when it was first released. Wasn't possible to zerg it, then. Once people overgeared it, of course it was trivial, though.

[Conquestaxe]

all the uld hard modes except firefighter and algalon are easy. ldw is easy just a matter of proper execution of your role in raid, not even that hectic.

firefighter and algalon are easy in good gear. OS3d was never hard.

He obviously meant when each of these encounters were in their prime.

[Idaho Immortal]

OS3D was unflatteringly brutal when it was first released. Wasn't possible to zerg it, then. Once people overgeared it, of course it was trivial, though.

I didn't do it back then, but from what I understand, move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone. move out of the void zone.


and you win. just dps adds, then kill boss. heal right. tanks should tank stuff. Not too terribly much going on if dps is good.

[Conquestaxe]

and you win. just dps adds, then kill boss. heal right. tanks should tank stuff. Not too terribly much going on if dps is good.

It was really healing intensive and cds had to be rotated to keep the tank from getting 1 shotted.

[seam]

I didn't do it back then, but from what I understand, move out of the void zone.
and you win. just dps adds, then kill boss. heal right. tanks should tank stuff. Not too terribly much going on if dps is good.

"Ok, now we just gotta kill this dr- OMG TANK DIED BECAUSE WE MISSED ONE COOLDOWN ON HIM AND HE TOOK 50k!"


For MT and heals, you had to rotate CDs on a short cast that wasn't on a set time. It wasn't just a 'pop a cooldown every 15 seconds', it could be like 15-40 or something like that. 50k(Or was it 75k? I forget) breaths hurt.

And it was more than just stay out of void zones, it was staying out a void zones while having tons of nameplates on the screen(If you had them on) or lots of red names (If they were off). Not to mention the fps drops from it.

The dps req was fairly high too.

But what do I know, some guy who never did it knows how easy it was =(

[Waterisbest]

all the uld hard modes except firefighter and algalon are easy. ldw is easy just a matter of proper execution of your role in raid, not even that hectic.

firefighter and algalon are easy in good gear. OS3d was never hard.

Any fight is easy once you out gear it, Vashj and Kael were shit hard, once you had t6/sunwell gear they became easy. The problem in Wotlk is that gear inflation is very high, making all previous fights faceroll (except yogg+0).

You obviously didn't do any of the fights pre-nerf or when they were the top encounters.

KKKoW was easy? Pre 3.2, more guilds had beaten FF then KKKoW. And both these fights were much much harder then Algalon. As a matter of fact Vezax hardmode (pre 30% nerf) was much harder then Algalon.

Every fight needs proper execution from your raid. Proper execution is what Paragon used on LK25hc and no other guild has managed to do that (so far).

LDW is one hell of a fight. It requires a lot of coordination and dps control.

Everyone can zerg OS+3. Have you ever tried the non-zerg version? No, you didn't (you said it yourself). So how can you say it's easy?

I can say the same thing about Archimond, kite fire, kire fire, kite fire, kite fire, kite fire, when you throws you up, use slow fall buff, kite fire, kite fire, kite fire. But was it that easy? No, it wasn't.

[Greel]

I didn't do it back then, but from what I understand, move out of the void zone.
and you win. just dps adds, then kill boss. heal right. tanks should tank stuff. Not too terribly much going on if dps is good.

Using this logic, how can anyone ever say any fight is hard?

Ragnoros: DPS the boss, kill the adds when they spawn, DPS the boss some more, loot epics

Onyxia: Don't get hit with cleave, don't get hit by deep breath, don't go near the eggs, skin boss.

Vaelstrasz: DPS the boss with infinite mana, heal the raid with infinite mana, swap tanks when necessary, win.

Twin Emps: Tank the boss, heal the tanks, kill the adds, profit.

C'thun: Spread out, kill giant eye, don't get hit with the giant laser beam of death, kill tentacles, kill some more tentacles, win.

Yogg-0on't stand in the green clouds, kill tentacles, kite adds away from boss, victory.

It's absolutely hilarious seeing someone who admits to never doing the fight, trying to claim it's such an easy fight.

[Ais]

Using this logic, how can anyone ever say any fight is hard?

Ragnoros: DPS the boss, kill the adds when they spawn, DPS the boss some more, loot epics

Onyxia: Don't get hit with cleave, don't get hit by deep breath, don't go near the eggs, skin boss.

Vaelstrasz: DPS the boss with infinite mana, heal the raid with infinite mana, swap tanks when necessary, win.

Twin Emps: Tank the boss, heal the tanks, kill the adds, profit.

C'thun: Spread out, kill giant eye, don't get hit with the giant laser beam of death, kill tentacles, kill some more tentacles, win.

Yogg-0on't stand in the green clouds, kill tentacles, kite adds away from boss, victory.

It's absolutely hilarious seeing someone who admits to never doing the fight, trying to claim it's such an easy fight.

M'uru: Kill adds, kill boss, kill bos again, loot.

[Ayreon]

OS3d was never hard.

I didn't do it back then

feel free to post about how all the other encounters you have never done are easy

[Revitalize]

M'uru: Kill adds, kill boss, kill bos again, loot.

UGH, DONT MENTION M'URU

[wulfen13]

For anyone that is actualy working on LK, you know that the fight is impossible to do with only 5 healers unless you use the macro for canceling Fort/commanding shout. Im sure the only reason paragon has it down is because they arent afraid of geting baned for exploitation like the rest of guilds are, especialy Ensidia.

Im sure we will see Ensidia get "world second" wich will be "world first" real kill. Paragon STILL hasent released a video because they cant kill him the right way yet, im sure we will see them release the video when 15-20% goes out... I mean think about it, what top-world guild that has the kill on the last boss in the expac doesent release there epeen in action, a day after putricde was out they had a vid up, same with previous encounters, just seems fishy to me.

Paragon released a kill of PP AFTER someone else had killed it, they didnt release it the first week when they were the only guild that killed him, they also released the video AFTER someone else released a video

also if the cancelaura thing is the only thing that works then why havent other guilds used it, oh yeah cos neither did paragon...

[Nynax]

those people that reply with a comment and say "/thread" amuse me. as if their opinion is absolute, God's word or something :

Anyway, a 0 Buff kill will matter, because the buff is blizzard basically saying "what, o too hard for you? well here we will give you a handicap." You beat him 0 buffs and your saying you dont need that handicap

Do people play Halo or Call of Duty or Tekken with handicaps on and say "LOL i still killed you dude, iz has more skillzz"? Or does having to play with a handicap mean your not as skilled as the other dude?

[Keoren]

all the uld hard modes except firefighter and algalon are easy. ldw is easy just a matter of proper execution of your role in raid, not even that hectic.

firefighter and algalon are easy in good gear. OS3d was never hard.

I am sad you think this based on overgeared and nerfed encounters. For example, only around 100 guilds in the world killed Freya+3 before her huge nerfs (earlier f.ex mages had to more or less stack some stamina or risk getting 1-shot when getting any hit combined with tremor). Mimiron before his nerfs was killed by what I recall less than 30 guilds. His fire damage was nerfed to more than half, he received a damage nerf as earlier one of the best tactics to make the raid in the first place live through p2 was to stack glyphed priest healers who would holy nova spam, and he also received a health nerf to tone down what at first was a very tight enrage.

That said, in most cases the first kills on bosses are notably harder than already the ones following them by few weeks and in this sense, Paragon did exceptional job with Lich King.

I also disagree 0% buff kill will matter that much. Gearing the raid some from the point they were at when they first defeated the encounter will basically make up for the 5%. It's as impressive to kill it with 0% after gearing up as it is to kill it with 5% in lesser gear - except as a bonus you already know the fight perfectly.

[Deleted]

When Paragon gets him down without the buff, then I'll bow. For now, the race is still on.

[Deathcold]

Ppl on Paragon cant sleep since the guy above me isint happy with their performance.

[TillieTill]

the funny thing is that they killed LK25H 2 times

3 times even.