Some General Dk Questions

[IndoMonkey]

Hey there folks,

After trying to find a proper spec for a Dual-Wield Frost DK (Single Target) Spec, I've ran across some questions. I hope you could assist me in answering these questions, as I simply am unable to find an appropriate answer myself.

1.)Bladed Armor.
Most builds seem to lack this talent. As a passive AP boost, I think of it as quite valuable. Are the trade-offs that huge?

2.)Howling Blast.
Whenever I'm attacking a boss, I hardly find myself using HB, unless Rime procs. Would a build without Rime and HB be viable?

3.)Improved Icy Talons.
Seeing as I'll mostly be farming Heroics, due to not having enough time to actively participate in the raiding content that is out now, is it a viable choice to take this talent?

Also, I have a few general questions.

1.)Glyph of Scourge Strike
Why not? It gives you a few more seconds on your diseases last time I checked, which means it opens up more time for your damaging rotation. Would this glyph be worth picking over the other glyphs that are part of the general consensus?

2.)Blood DPS
After I actively tried out the Blood spec on bosses and instances in general, I experienced that not only my overall damage was lower, but that my DPS on bosses, with the same team setup was lower as well . Am I simply doing something wrong? Especially since it's labelled as being focussed on single target DPS? I was experiencing a drop of about 500-600 DPS drop on average.

Any help will be appreciated, and I hope for a response soon.

Edit!: Could anyone help me with the best possible single target Frost DPS build? I'm currently having a hard time deciding on talents. ???
I'm currently undecided on either 2/51/18 ( http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jMZG0exA0czf0chzAofM0hxc ) and 3/51/17 ( http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jcZG0exA0czf0cuzAZfM0hxM )


Regards,
IndoMonkey

[mhp]

1.)Bladed Armor.
Most builds seem to lack this talent. As a passive AP boost, I think of it as quite valuable. Are the trade-offs that huge?

Your armor as a DPS DK will be fairly low. As such, BA doesn't grant enough AP to spec that deep into blood (the points spent in unholy provide a far bigger damage boost).

2.)Howling Blast.
Whenever I'm attacking a boss, I hardly find myself using HB, unless Rime procs. Would a build without Rime and HB be viable?

Possibly. But you'd be better off keeping HB anyway, since there's no single point anywhere else, that would provide a similar damage boost, and be fairly useful in AoE situations aswell.

3.)Improved Icy Talons.
Seeing as I'll mostly be farming Heroics, due to not having enough time to actively participate in the raiding content that is out now, is it a viable choice to take this talent?

IIT is part of every decent DW frost build.

1.)Glyph of Scourge Strike
Why not? It gives you a few more seconds on your diseases last time I checked, which means it opens up more time for your damaging rotation. Would this glyph be worth picking over the other glyphs that are part of the general consensus?

Are you using SS as frost? I think not. If you do not even have the talent, why should you glyph it?

[IndoMonkey]

Your armor as a DPS DK will be fairly low. As such, BA doesn't grant enough AP to spec that deep into blood (the points spent in unholy provide a far bigger damage boost).

Alright, thanks for the answer, this was all I needed to hear.

Possibly. But you'd be better off keeping HB anyway, since there's no single point anywhere else, that would provide a similar damage boost, and be fairly useful in AoE situations as well.

Alright, point taken, I shall incorporate HB into my build then.

IIT is part of every decent DW frost build.

Thought so, I was wondering with the addition of Shamans Windfury totems if it would become obsolete. Regardless of that, I shall incorporate this talent into my build as well.

Are you using SS as frost? I think not. If you do not even have the talent, why should you glyph it?

I was talking about "General questions", I thought this would clarify that they were not necessarily related to Frost.

Thanks for the answer to 3 out of 5 questions though ;D

[mhp]

[quote=IndoMonkey ]

Thought so, I was wondering with the addition of Shamans Windfury totems if it would become obsolete. Regardless of that, I shall incorporate this talent into my build as well.

It's not obsolete. the IIT line of talents provide you with a 45% haste (and provides the WF effect to your raid aswell, but your toon gets more haste out of those, than you'd get from WF alone).

I was talking about "General questions", I thought this would clarify that they were not necessarily related to Frost.

Ah. Then the answer is: there's far superior glyphs for unholy DPS =)

[Ricecooker]

Also if you look at it IIT is better than IT on a haste provided per point basis even if you exlude the raid buffs (IIT is 5% haste for 1 point and IT is 4% haste per point :P)

[CatzDtroll]

1. As the guy said, not enough armor to make that talent better than some others in the unholy/blood tree.
2. RNG is a biatch but when u have all runes off cd including the 2 blood runes turned into death and after each of those 3 obliterates a rime proc occurs, thats some 30k free DMG which is ZOMG.
3. Well IIT gives ur grp 20% passive haste now, all the time, and 20% haste = 20% faster killing = abt 12-15% faster HCs
4. I've found out, at least for my self, that Glyph of SS messes up ur rotation that is fairly well rounded.
5. Blood requires more ARP and Exp than unholy and especially frost, that might be the prob.

[IndoMonkey]

It's not obsolete. the IIT line of talents provide you with a 45% haste (and provides the WF effect to your raid aswell, but your toon gets more haste out of those, than you'd get from WF alone).

45%? I really must've been sleeping, because I didn't realize Icy Talons and IIT stacked ><. Thanks for clarifying that for me!

Ah. Then the answer is: there's far superior glyphs for unholy DPS =)

Hmm alright, I'll accept your knowledge on this ;D

Also if you look at it IIT is better than IT on a haste provided per point basis even if you exlude the raid buffs (IIT is 5% haste for 1 point and IT is 4% haste per point :P)

Heh, yeah it seems so, into my build this talent goes!

1. As the guy said, not enough armor to make that talent better than some others in the unholy/blood tree.

Must've been my ignorance with plate equalling heavy armor in my thoughts.

2. RNG is a biatch but when u have all runes off cd including the 2 blood runes turned into death and after each of those 3 obliterates a rime proc occurs, thats some 30k free DMG which is ZOMG.

Heh, yeah, but as you mentioned yourself, that's only when the stars align, which doesn't happen that often!

3. Well IIT gives ur grp 20% passive haste now, all the time, and 20% haste = 20% faster killing = abt 12-15% faster HCs

And according to mhp, it also stacks with IT, so it will give me a grand total of 45% haste?

4. I've found out, at least for my self, that Glyph of SS messes up ur rotation that is fairly well rounded.

I find it to be quite strict at times, but then again I'm using the Reaping build, which might be more complicated.

5. Blood requires more ARP and Exp than unholy and especially frost, that might be the prob.

Ah of course, how could I be so stupid, Blood is more physical than magical, didn't even give my gems or gear a second thought when I tested it. Thanks for the heads up!

[IndoMonkey]

It's not obsolete. the IIT line of talents provide you with a 45% haste (and provides the WF effect to your raid aswell, but your toon gets more haste out of those, than you'd get from WF alone).

Just tested and calculated it, but it remains at 25%, not 45% :-X

[Shiira]

Just tested and calculated it, but it remains at 25%, not 45% :-X

Speccing five points in icy talons gives you the icy talons buff whenever you apply frost fever. This increases haste by 20%. One point in Improved icy talons gives you 5% haste as well as the improved icy talons aura, which stacks with icy talons and increases haste by 20%.

20 + 20 + 5 = 45

[IndoMonkey]

Speccing five points in icy talons gives you the icy talons buff whenever you apply frost fever. This increases haste by 20%. One point in Improved icy talons gives you 5% haste as well as the improved icy talons aura, which stacks with icy talons and increases haste by 20%.

20 + 20 + 5 = 45

Crap you're right, didn't test it in combat, disregard my comment. i seem to be on a stupidity roll today...

[coffin]

Speccing five points in icy talons gives you the icy talons buff whenever you apply frost fever. This increases haste by 20%. One point in Improved icy talons gives you 5% haste as well as the improved icy talons aura, which stacks with icy talons and increases haste by 20%.

20 + 20 + 5 = 45

Are you sure about this? I was under the impression it's 25% personal haste with IIT specced, which hasn't changed with the patch. What changed in 3.3.3 was that IIT stacks with WF only for the dk resulting in 20+25=45% haste, provided the WF totem, and without totem it's still 20% raid melee haste and 25% personal haste. I'm not 100% sure about this, but just looking at the tooltips for IT/IIT doesn't make 45%.

[Shiira]

Are you sure about this? I was under the impression it's 25% personal haste with IIT specced, which hasn't changed with the patch. What changed in 3.3.3 was that IIT stacks with WF only for the dk resulting in 20+25=45% haste, provided the WF totem, and without totem it's still 20% raid melee haste and 25% personal haste. I'm not 100% sure about this, but just looking at the tooltips for IT/IIT doesn't make 45%.

Yes this is exactly how it works.

[IndoMonkey]

Are you sure about this? I was under the impression it's 25% personal haste with IIT specced, which hasn't changed with the patch. What changed in 3.3.3 was that IIT stacks with WF only for the dk resulting in 20+25=45% haste, provided the WF totem, and without totem it's still 20% raid melee haste and 25% personal haste. I'm not 100% sure about this, but just looking at the tooltips for IT/IIT doesn't make 45%.

Currently using a 2.60 MH and a 2.90 OH, out of combat my Attack speed is 2.06/2.30

2.06/2.60x100% =20,1% haste, and 2.30/2.90x100%=also 20,1%, so let's say that is the 25%. This is without ANY haste gear on or Icy touch applied.


After I apply Icy Touch, and only Icy Touch, my weapon speeds change to 1.72 MH and 1.92 OH and also the Icy Talons buff gets applied.

1.72/2.06x100%=17,51% haste, and 1,92/2,30x100%= 17,53%

So the grand total isn't 45%, but 37,61% MH and 37,63% OH?

[Shiira]

Currently using a 2.60 MH and a 2.90 OH, out of combat my Attack speed is 2.06/2.30

2.06/2.60x100% =20,1% haste, and 2.30/2.90x100%=also 20,1%, so let's say that is the 25%. This is without ANY haste gear on or Icy touch applied.


After I apply Icy Touch, and only Icy Touch, my weapon speeds change to 1.72 MH and 1.92 OH and also the Icy Talons buff gets applied.

1.72/2.06x100%=17,51% haste, and 1,92/2,30x100%= 17,53%

So the grand total isn't 45%, but 37,61% MH and 37,63% OH?

This isn't how haste works.

2.6/(1.2*1.05)=2.06
2.9/(1.2*1.05)=2.3

2.06/1.2=1.72
2.3/1.05=1.92

Haste effects don't add, they multiply. It's not technically 20 + 20 + 5 = 45, in reality it works as 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.05 = 1.512. Divide the swing timer listed on your weapons by 1.512 to get the swing timer after all of the haste effects from the icy talons line but before haste from gear and other raid buffs.

[IndoMonkey]

This isn't how haste works.

2.6/(1.2*1.05)=2.06
2.9/(1.2*1.05)=2.3

2.06/1.2=1.72
2.3/1.05=1.92

Haste effects don't add, they multiply. It's not technically 20 + 20 + 5 = 45, in reality it works as 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.05 = 1.512. Divide the swing timer listed on your weapons by 1.512 to get the swing timer after all of the haste effects from the icy talons line but before haste from gear and other raid buffs.

You're right, my bad, heh, I kinda liked the sound of 37% haste more though

[Shiira]

I'm not sure where you got 37% from but if it makes you feel better the icy talons talents reduce the time in between your auto attacks by 39.2%.

[IndoMonkey]

I'm not sure where you got 37% from but if it makes you feel better the icy talons talents reduce the time in between your auto attacks by 39.2%.

Must be something wrong with my calculations on the previous page then X_x