Divine Intervention, the oddball Paladin spell

[Puri]

If you DI someone in the opposites flagroom in WS, you are able to tank 6-8 players of the opposing team for three minutes. It's like having a prot warrior and two healers placed there. It's awesome. Don't fix it.

[artemisthemp]

Paladins had a Battle ress in the past, just dont rember what Patch it was.

DI is fine :P

Rember in Ulduar ad trash before Auriyan, press DI by acciendt and DI on of the Tank = Dead Lock :P

Or DI rogue tank on Raggy this Week :P

[Puri]

Paladins had a Battle ress in the past, just dont rember what Patch it was.

They never had. But usually you kept one or two out of combat, you were not automatically infight when engaging bosses. On our first Geddon kill I went from 70% durability to 0%. Those were epic times...

[jenseits]

I've always thought it'd be neat if it worked like a castable Ardent defender, where you place the buff of someone like a healer or a tank and if that person gets hit with a killing blow, the pld dies and that person become immune to dmg for 3-5 seconds. That way you can just brez the pld afterwards, or just go a dps short. Now it has real raid utility AND saves a repair.

That said i like the other idea about being a Brez at heavy cost os stats and health, or a lesser cost but also slows you down fora few secs since it's such a heavy burdon.

[Arganaut]

Oddball is such a spot on description for this spell. It has it's place but I think it's had it's day in it's current format.

A Battle Rez? Hmmm, nice idea but no for me. I like classes to retain a niche and that for me should stay with the Druids.

I agree with the comment that Paladins sacrifice themselves for others. It's true, we don't want to save any Gnomes but it's just in our nature to do so, however from a game play point of view dying for someone else is just not cricket.

If there could be some way for us to DI someone who is in danger, die, but fight on in a spirit world (I have this picture of fighting in silence while Uther and/or Arthas watch on), and somehow, THANK THE LIGHT, we come back to life to continue playing.

But what would be the point in all that. Perhaps, if we DI someone, we go into a Ghost Form and to be resurrected before going to 'heaven' (we die good and proper) our spirit must be healed 2 or 3 times out our HP to keep us alive. I dunno, tossing it out there.

Have a good weekend.

[Ronark]

I've always thought it'd be neat if it worked like a castable Ardent defender, where you place the buff of someone like a healer or a tank and if that person gets hit with a killing blow, the pld dies and that person become immune to dmg for 3-5 seconds. That way you can just brez the pld afterwards, or just go a dps short. Now it has real raid utility AND saves a repair.

Thats the Priest talent Guardian Spirit.

If there could be some way for us to DI someone who is in danger, die, but fight on in a spirit world (I have this picture of fighting in silence while Uther and/or Arthas watch on), and somehow, THANK THE LIGHT, we come back to life to continue playing.

But what would be the point in all that. Perhaps, if we DI someone, we go into a Ghost Form and to be resurrected before going to 'heaven' (we die good and proper) our spirit must be healed 2 or 3 times out our HP to keep us alive. I dunno, tossing it out there.

Have a good weekend.

This is also similar to the Spirit of Redemption talent ability, except you always die afterwards.

[Talen]

Paladins had a Battle ress in the past, just dont rember what Patch it was.

IIRC, the original plan was indeed for battle Res to be a Paldin ability, a holdover from WC3. Things developed differently and druids got it instead as they were a healer who had no res.

At the minute, BRes is like BoK, Heroism, etc....unqiue abilities that are identified with a specific class. The problem here is that this works against Blizzards "Bring the player" philosophy.

As Blizzard appear to be looking at raid utility once more, I expect things to change. Replenishment is getting removed or nerfed for example. Heroism and especially BoK I can see going to other classes or removed. Several such as warriors need extra utility.

DI is fine :P

Not really.

Its a wipe recovery tool. A time saver. With teleports being placed in many raids, and Mass Ressurection in the new guild system, it is now a tool that simply saves some gold. However, as is, it has no in game purpose anymore.

That means it will either be removed or redesigned. Either are possibiliites.

Making it a Battle Res fits lorewise, and spreads a useful tool about.
You could also change it slightly...give the target the ability to move and resurrect one target.
You could alter it into delayed a self res as well....but thats stepping on Shaman ground rather than a Druids.
Or a Guardian Spirit type save...but Protadins already have AD.

The Battle Res ability would need to be talented to stop Prot and Ret getting more utility. Its the best change I've seen to the ability.

EJL

[Nikoll]

After reading the Cataclysm Holy Paladin discussions... the mechanics of DI appeared in my head.

"Divine Intervention - The paladin sacrifices himself or herself to remove the targeted party member from harm's way. Enemies will stop attacking the protected party member, who will be immune to all harmful attacks but will not be able to take any action for 3 min."

We all know what pallies use DI for: Primarily to save yourself repair costs during a wipe, and secondarily to save someone else repair costs during a wipe. Occasionally for faster raid recovery (it's getting more so that running back in is usually as fast or faster).
Obviously that doesn't really sound right; kinda like saying: Believe in the Light and save some munnies!

What was the intent of Divine Intervention in the first place?
To save a paladin and his chosen target some gold?
A raid recovery tool from times past where people had to spend a long time running back?

So far, it seems that DI is an extremely rare skill that you use when the raid is guaranteed a wipe. It is an "ohshit" button in the sense that: "ohshit wipe incoming time to save some gold". It has no real combat benefit, and even when some paladins creatively used it to remove Saurfang's Mark in ICC, Blizzard has made known that DI was not intended to be used in such a fashion.

My point of discussion: Do any pallies here use DI for any other purposes? What do you think DI's purpose is, should be, or can be?

when i see someone start to hearth in org. i invite them to group and di them if they accept, thus stoppuing the hearth.

[Ronark]

The Battle Res ability would need to be talented to stop Prot and Ret getting more utility. Its the best change I've seen to the ability.

EJL

Prot and Ret have more utility than Holy? The only thing they have utility-wise that Holy doesnt is an AP debuff, where no Holy Paladin would be in Melee range anyhow to use it (unless you are counting mediocre things like Imp auras and whatnot).

If DI was changed into a BRez ability, it would have a 2.5 second cast time, with a Talent in prot to make it instant like it is for Druid tanks- Going off my idea, possibly make it so Holy paladins with the talent heal their target for more health/mana initially, and Rets take less damage or heal initially for less.

[Talen]

Prot and Ret have more utility than Holy?

No...more healing utility than most, if not all other, DPS specs.

I think its a wonderful idea. I don't think its a kind of tool Blizzard would give Ret or Prot.

EJL

[bluepencil]

Its a wipe recovery tool. A time saver. With teleports being placed in many raids, and Mass Ressurection in the new guild system, it is now a tool that simply saves some gold. However, as is, it has no in game purpose anymore.

That's pretty much what I've been trying to say.
Everybody seems to like the idea of a battle res (who wouldn't?)... but what if it killed you?
Bring back your teammate at the cost of your own life (in line with the original DI cost).
That gives you utility, but also means an intelligent decision has to be made on who to battle res.

IMO, just inflicting damage as a trade-off for battle res is inconsequential... we'll just bubble-DI then.

[Ronark]

No...more healing utility than most, if not all other, DPS specs.

I think its a wonderful idea. I don't think its a kind of tool Blizzard would give Ret or Prot.

EJL

How? They have the same healing utility, except Prot's crits heal for more (and they have a self MS) and Ret has instant FoLs (which need Critical hits) and a HoT (Which also requires a crit)- And neither spec can heal for very long.

[Nodja]

Divine Intervention - Instant, 3m Cooldown
Reduces damage received by 30%, and prevents the target from dying by sacrificing the caster. Lasts 15s
If the caster is sacrificed, the target receives 30% bonus healing and 30% reduced damage for 30s.


Of course, dying by being sacrificed wouldn't have a durability loss. There, something more useful that still saves your repair bills and you can still use it before a wipe if you cast it on the right person.

[Tro]

If we could go back in time, I would say DI should do exactly what Guardian Spirit from the Priest Holy tree does. Because that's no longer possible, I have no idea.

Check out my version of it

Divine Intervention: Save target's life, healing them for (X) health, and a additional (Y) health if the target is below 25% hp. If target dies within 5 seconds of using Divine Intervention, there is a 50% chance for them to return from the dead. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 mins per Paladin

[Talen]

How? They have the same healing utility, except Prot's crits heal for more (and they have a self MS) and Ret has instant FoLs (which need Critical hits) and a HoT (Which also requires a crit)- And neither spec can heal for very long.

Compared with DPS.

EJL

[Talen]

Check out my version of it

Divine Intervention: Save target's life, healing them for (X) health, and a additional (Y) health if the target is below 25% hp. If target dies within 5 seconds of using Divine Intervention, there is a 50% chance for them to return from the dead. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 mins per Paladin

The proc means people will wnat to save it for the times when they need a kill to be avoided.

The proc chance means it will be wasted half the time and unreliable.

EJL

[Talen]

Everybody seems to like the idea of a battle res (who wouldn't?)... but what if it killed you?

In that case....there is little, if any, benefit to the spell. You're saving soemone who is dead in favour of soemone who is alive and doing things and doesn't need rebuffed and healed etc.

You might get an occasional time when losing a healer or DPS to bring back a tank would be beneficial...but that happen how often? The best use I can think of is if you are a healer, and you need to bring back a DPS to get avoid the dreaded 1% wipe.

EJL

[Tro]

The proc means people will wnat to save it for the times when they need a kill to be avoided.

The proc chance means it will be wasted half the time and unreliable.

EJL

Added Instant Heal, plus with the chance of rezing the tank back with full threat.

Seems pretty cool to me. But that may be because I made the idea ;D

[Talen]

Added Instant Heal, plus with the chance of rezing the tank back with full threat.

Seems pretty cool to me. But that may be because I made the idea ;D

The heal is useful....the proc is what the spell will be known for. Its not going to be cast for the healing effect...which is duplicable by other spells.

EJL

[bluepencil]

In that case....there is little, if any, benefit to the spell. You're saving soemone who is dead in favour of soemone who is alive and doing things and doesn't need rebuffed and healed etc.

You might get an occasional time when losing a healer or DPS to bring back a tank would be beneficial...but that happen how often? The best use I can think of is if you are a healer, and you need to bring back a DPS to get avoid the dreaded 1% wipe.

EJL

You can DI res a druid, who's battle res has not been used. you can DI res a shaman, who's bloodlust/heroism has not been used. You can DI res a warlock, whose soulstone is up. Among a sea of other possibilities.
Besides, saving a raid from a 1% wipe makes you a martyr. You should be getting the tier token from the boss when that happens lol ;D