"Rogues are now rogues and not assassins."

[Falter]

I'd like to go by this logic, it'd mean that my priest would end up being sucked off by little boys while lecturing the bible.

[Athael]

You're putting too much effort into trying to define this for your little box of a world where everything has it's place. A rogue is someone who fights dirty (ambushes, cheap shots, dirty tricks, kicks you while you're down, you know, all the things common to a dirty fighter that blizzard uses for ability and talent names?), and isn't above running away to fight another day when things aren't in his favor.

A rogue is the guy who'll grab a busted bottle and slip into a bar room brawl just long enough to stick it in a guy who insulted him earlier, then slip right on back out and go on his way.

Or the guy who drinks your beer while you're taking a whiz and leaves before you come back, and also got your girl's phone number from your phone that you left in your coat pocket hanging on the back of the chair.

Maybe in D&D, or Ultima Online, or in the case of the last example, real life, but this is WoW. It's not a sandbox game (or real life!), it's a theme-park game. When you roll a rogue, you don't get to spec into the Sweet-Talking-Beer-Drinking-Lady's-Man tree. You don't get to invent your playstyle. You pick up two weapons, one fast and one slow, put poison on them, go into stealth, and rely on an energy meter. Find me a rogue who refuses to use stealth because he's the sort of rogue who "just gets into fights and uses dirty tricks but isn't a sneaky assassin type", and I'll give you a 10 page thread with half the people saying "lolRP" and the other half calling him a terrible player.

The "little box of a world where everything has its place' is not an invention of mine, it's the game we're playing. By your definition, we could call Death Knights rogues, because they kick paladins in the nuts and raise their best friends as pets. We could call Warlocks rogues because everybody back in mage-school told them, "Don't you summon these demons!" and they did anyway, because they're misanthropes.

Contrary to what the guy who posted the picture says, I'm really not a troll. I am however a big fan of the proper potential and treatment of language and thus do best when things are defined exactly as what they are, and not in variable, shifting definitions that make very little sense to me. When you deconstruct the phrase I started this thread asking about, it basically says, "Wow Rogues are going to stop being Wow Rogues and start being Rogue Rogues." Which makes absolutely no sense, and has no meaning.

So I asked. /shrug.

[Pyrate]

A rogue is a lot like a Ninja gets in undetected kills and gets out undetected but is very capable to take on arm to arm combat if escape route is blocked and will use everything available to him to win or get away.


And the Bane of a rogue is a good warrior just like a Samurai was the bane of the Ninja.

[Noobasaurus Rex]

Oh dear god, it knows no limits. It could even infest the realm of not making any sense!
All cars are vehicles but not all vehicles are cars?

All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.

[Phtes]

Since no one seems to want to put this in WoW perspective I will,
Think of it like this -

Right now rogues are more assainish in the fact that they have to kill you fast and without you having time to react, if the current (game viewed) rogue doesn't get that kill within his cool downs he will get his face stomped pretty hard.

Also assume you catch a rogue in a stun if he has no help theres little chance he makes it out alive.

Now with cata they want to change this were rogues can actually survive using things like the proposed smoke bomb and combat readiness or w/e.

As others stated rogues can hold there ground in combat where an assassin falls over if he fails to get a kill (like right now, once your cds are gone you look really tasty for a warrior or paladin)

[SP33D14]

I would most likely see it like this.

Assassins are the ninja kind that gets in, does the job, gets out without being seen.

The Rogue Blizzard is getting at now would be a ninja that can remain undetected, but will come out of the shadows with a slight advantage, whilst deflecting blades with his weapons, stopping arrows with his armored cloak, throwing sand in your face, kicking you down and throwing knifes in the heads of fleeing victims.

I hope this will clear the whole Assassin-rogue thing up.

[sharpcut]

For related articles, see Category:Rogues.

Rogues are World of Warcraft's premiere melee damage dealer and especially effective in PvP. They have access to a wide range of special abilities, which depend on their constantly refilling pool of energy. Unlike other classes, such as the hunter who has the ability to deal physical damage from a distance, rogues must be in close.

The primary rogue class advantage is their ability to stealth, preventing other players from seeing them unless the rogue is very close and in a 180 degree arc in front of them or much lower level.

The primary rogue attribute is agility. For PvP rogues, stamina is needed for staying alive. For a rogue, agility is always preferable to strength. A rogue uses no mana, so intellect and spirit are nearly useless. Spirit also contributes to health restoration, but even with spirit, you won't want to rely on just normal healing. Whichever method you use, food, bandages, potions, or a healer makes having a lot of spirit unnecessary.

At later levels, most rogue-oriented gear will also include a lot of Attack Power. Other gear bonuses sought by rogues are Crit, Hit, Haste, and Resilience. High Crit gives burst damage, High Hit increases chance to hit, mitigating dual wield penalty and enhancing dps, high Haste enhances an already high dps, and Resilience, which is almost only desirable for PvP, gives the rogue more ability to survive.

Rogues can only wear leather or cloth armor, are unable to use shields, and can only wield one-handed weapons (daggers, swords, maces, fist weapons and more recently, axes) and ranged weapons. They can dual wield one-handed weapons upon creation, in a way compensating for their lack of ability to use two-handed weapons. At level 20, they gain access to poisons that can be purchased from poison vendors. It is no longer required to complete a quest to gain the use of poisons.

Rogues are best suited for players who like to sneak up on enemies and dish out large amounts of burst damage.

In Warcraft: Orcs & Humans, it is a rank you can achieve.



No ....rogues are not rogues anymore , they are just a useless class ....brb, reroll huntard so i can shot a freezing trap in your face from 40 yards when you will use your 100 defensive useless cd to stay alive (aka the JOKE smoking bomb )

[miles411]

"Rouges's ares assasiains u newbbb!!! laawl..!"

But seriously.........

........like honestly......

i.....don't even know...............

I am still an assassin, no matter what they tell me.
(and besides can't we be a rogue assassin?"

[Deleted]

As the guy the OP probably means, I'll elaborate.

First of all, yes I should've had a "just" in there between the not and assasins for clarification.

Second, it's all been pretty much said here. Rogues will no longer just rely on stealth and quick kills but also be able to fight, as Blizzard have said, "toe-to-toe" with other melee without fearing death in 2 seconds. I personally welcome this change as I originally intended for my rogue to be an agile warrior and not an assassin.

Third, the way we say it doesn't really matter. The goal for Cataclysm seems to be to soften up the cookie-cutter boundaries and give players more choice. Should you not want to rely heavily on being able to fight in close combat and instead focus on stealth and guile, that will be your choice and ultimately what's important.

[Sidonis]

Maybe in D&D, or Ultima Online, or in the case of the last example, real life, but this is WoW. It's not a sandbox game (or real life!), it's a theme-park game. When you roll a rogue, you don't get to spec into the Sweet-Talking-Beer-Drinking-Lady's-Man tree. You don't get to invent your playstyle. You pick up two weapons, one fast and one slow, put poison on them, go into stealth, and rely on an energy meter. Find me a rogue who refuses to use stealth because he's the sort of rogue who "just gets into fights and uses dirty tricks but isn't a sneaky assassin type", and I'll give you a 10 page thread with half the people saying "lolRP" and the other half calling him a terrible player.

The "little box of a world where everything has its place' is not an invention of mine, it's the game we're playing. By your definition, we could call Death Knights rogues, because they kick paladins in the nuts and raise their best friends as pets. We could call Warlocks rogues because everybody back in mage-school told them, "Don't you summon these demons!" and they did anyway, because they're misanthropes.

Contrary to what the guy who posted the picture says, I'm really not a troll. I am however a big fan of the proper potential and treatment of language and thus do best when things are defined exactly as what they are, and not in variable, shifting definitions that make very little sense to me. When you deconstruct the phrase I started this thread asking about, it basically says, "Wow Rogues are going to stop being Wow Rogues and start being Rogue Rogues." Which makes absolutely no sense, and has no meaning.

So I asked. /shrug.

Except that Blizzard is saying that the box isn't tightly defined, and that they'll redefine it as and when they see fit to. That mold was partially broken in WotLK, and it's about to get shattered in Cataclysm (pardon the pun). Combat and Assasination are probably going to continue to tweak back and forth between top damage, while Subtlety is probably going to end up close enough that you can raid with it if you're not in a serious guild, but enjoy that playstyle more.

P.S. Blizzard thinks about Rogues as having many personalities as well. You have everything from MI:6, to a guy who sells cheese but freelances as a friend of the kingdom, to Deathstalkers who are highly skilled assassins, to a Manor run by a shady noble for rogues of all sorts. Just because all -you- see when you log in is 2 weapons with poison and a yellow energy bar, doesn't mean that's what everyone else sees, including Blizzard.

As you said, it's a theme park, one with a story behind it. LOLRP all anyone wants, but the story is as much a part of WoW's success as the RTS and MMO have been, and if you can't enjoy the spirit of the class then you might as well just be standing in an arcade smashing buttons on the latest Tekken game while talking to your friends over your cellphone with a headset.

[Athael]

Sidonis, you don't need to lay the personal character judgments on me quite so heavily. I wasn't attacking anyone's love of their character/character lore, I was asking for clarification on a catchphrase I've seen used a lot lately. That's all.

[Deleted]

A lot? I just did a search on the phrase and I'M the only one who has posted it apparently, in 2 make that 5 replies.

[Athael]

A lot? I just did a search on the phrase and I'M the only one who has posted it apparently, in 2 make that 5 replies.

Alright, then I read it 5 times and in 5 posts and that struck me as a lot. /shrug