Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Downwithopp]

Yeah... no I'm not.

You're still a troll in my eyes

You are gemming for defense over defense cap.
You are using two Brewfest trinkets.
The farthest you have gotten in ICC25 with a 10% nerf/buff is princes.
You have a 10 to all stats gem in your bracers.

Nobody is trolling, you are a god awful player. Learn to play your class/this game before you cry to blizzard about needing 25 man gear.

[Cilraaz]

Having 25-man and 10-man drop the same loot is the most retarded, stupid, dumb idea Blizzard could ever come up with.

The whole point of raiding is to have progression, having progressively more difficult dungeons and thus higher quality rewards is a big part of the fun of raiding in larger groups. There is no way to balance 10-man raids and 25-man raids the same way - so how do they justify giving the same rewards? In the end it's going to just kill large group activity - which is really lame.

There still is progression. Blizzard said a long time ago that they wanted 10 man and 25 man raiding to be separate progression paths. Now that they share a lockout and share gear, they truly are.

[ScorchHellfire]

While I personally enjoy 10 man raids more because individual players matter more, I also liked doing 25 man raids for the more epic feel, so I'm not liking that they will share a lockout since I only have one raiding char, but oh well.

And what is this about still having to clear normal mode to get to heroic mode? Not to long ago another blue poster said they don't like doing that because it makes the heroic mode boring if the guild has already seen all the fights and it's the same fight with more hp and damage from the boss... So if they keep it the way it is in ICC then they need to go to the Ulduar heroic modes that actually have different mechanics or go to not having to clear normal mode first so that hardcore guilds can start with the more difficult encounters... Either way, Blizzard needs to make up their minds.

But with the way Blizzard is homoginizing everything we may see a single raid path again in the expansion after Cataclysm... incoming 15 man raids as the only version I bet.

[DaLeetPawner]

Thats complete Bulls*** this is one of the reasons which i hate about the way wow is going, everyone can get loot, I've been a raider since vanila, whats the point of 25man normal now then? 10man normal will drop the same items? why go 25man when theres less chance of getting loot and a higher chance to fail / wipe?

They will make 10 mans harder, if u read. So less casuals facerolling ICC (And good guilds that are bored of staring 11/12 bosses in ICC to dead)

[domn]

PLZ SOME1 GET CTRL+C I WANT MOAR

[WarCrimez]

this is sickening

[xMicrowave]

From what i've seen im 50/50 on the changes, i like the idea of 10/25 loot being the same but i dont like the fact they share a lockout. Just means less raiding, but i'll make up my mind when its implemented.

[Palisis]

Should I continue to play World of Warcraft or just cancel my subscription now?

If you enjoy the game, continue playing. There will be multiple raids (new bosses and loots to whore) in each tier.

[dvdconway]

You are gemming for defense over defense cap.
You are using two Brewfest trinkets.
The farthest you have gotten in ICC25 with a 10% nerf/buff is princes.
You have a 10 to all stats gem in your bracers.

Nobody is trolling, you are a god awful player. Learn to play your class/this game before you cry to blizzard about needing 25 man gear.

ROFL

[Svenny]

People forget we pay to play this game. If we want to raid a shit ton we should be allowed to. Why are we getting restricted to play the boring parts of the game because Blizzard is too lazy to design a sufficient number of raids/content. Now you dont wannt design a difference between 10 and 25? I dont raid THAT much but I sure as hell want to raid more than 1 night a week maybe 2 when content is new.

We all know content is going to be a joke as far as difficulty goes. I mean Blizzard has been making raids easier every expansion to please the casuals. So now we get multiple 5-6 boss raids with 1 locket instead of 1 Eleven boss raid with 2 lockouts ?

Guess most of us are gonna be bored on off days.

I wish it worked like that. I pay for the game so they should make it exactly how I want it... right? Especially since there is 10 million people with different opinions on how the game should be. It's your own choice to pay for this service, if you are not happy with it just cancel your account and move on.

[melathys]

I'm honestly not sure what to think of this. As a 10man raider, I like it, however, I've always had fun filling in for the larger guilds for their 25s.

This will also cut down on some socialization. Currently, I raid 25 with a conglomerate of guilds. Its mainl alts of ppl in the top guilds on the server or really good mains from 10 man guilds, such as myself. Most of my guild has raided like this since TBC.

In the end though, I think this will be a good thing.

[Klokie]

Some things you have to keep in mind for 10 vs 25 man raid

Path of the Titans
Faster to lvl the path in 25 man then in 10 man? More mats/Drops/glyphs from 25 man?(Archology)

New Guild system
Faster to lvl your guild in 25 man then in 10? More rewards as a guild in 25 man?
Get better gear/encahnts from crafting via the guild/prof system?

The gear
"Hay! I raid 10 mans. I have raided for 10 weeks now and still waiting for my wand to drop from Mr.imaboss because that shitty tanking neck noone want has dropped 5 weeks in a row now!"

"Hey! I raid 25 mans. I got all my gear upgraded after 8 weeks cause Mr.imaboss and Mr. imabosstoo drop 5-6 loots each week, and not 2 like they do in 10 man! LoL! Also I got all my badge gear!"

(Ofc 25 man loot could be the same 10 weeks in a row too, but chances are lower as there is more loot handed out each week)

[Edit: 73 replies have been posted... Much hatred and love about this topic ]

[Jathro]

How many alts are gonna get geared better and quicker than mains now, especially depending on your class and loot competition.

[Kinettik]

My only question, and apologize if its been asked ( im not reading all 50 pages), Do you think they will now allow 10 man raids to recieve Legendary Weapons or, and i hope this is part of the plan, 25 mans will still be the only way to obtain them?

[exochaft]

My only concern with the changes is the shared lockout.

There are quite a few guilds plagued by attendance issues due to server's lack of population/skill base. 10mans were a viable way for 25man guilds to continue progression and gear up when you didn't have the man power for 25man that raid day. At this point, it's dangerous to get saved to 25man if you're in a similar situation, since you won't get to raid period if you get saved to a boss in 25man and attendance doesn't allow you to continue 25man despite having the numbers for two 10mans. The exact opposite could occur as well, having just enough people to do 10mans the first raid night but getting enough people to do 25mans later in the week.

10mans and 25mans sharing the same difficulty/items/badges/etc. is fine with me. Keeping them on separate lockouts would allow 25man guilds to gear up faster to support their larger size compared to 10man guilds, and it would avoid being unable to raid due to attendance issues (or, as some people have mentioned, getting into bad pugs). The reward difference will have to be staggering in order to make it worth the risk to do 25man.

[Palisis]

From what i've seen im 50/50 on the changes, i like the idea of 10/25 loot being the same but i dont like the fact they share a lockout. Just means less raiding, but i'll make up my mind when its implemented.

Theyll be multiple raids per tier. Hopefully, youll be able to raid as much while getting same ilevel (instead of now, where if you wanna raid more, you have to go down to toc/uld).

[Tore]

This is only a positive change for 10m players. For everyone who raids 25m, they just got screwed. You know how much harder recruiting for 25m guilds will be when there's no incentive for doing 25m content besides some gold and some more badges? This is retarded.

Man, this is bullshit. Honestly, if anything is gonna break WoW for the endgame players, it's this. There's no point in going through the time and effort of clearing hard content with 24 other people without some kind of reward that other people don't have. They've already removed exclusive 310% mounts as a reward. They removed exclusivity to Tier gear a while ago. Now they're going to get rid of quite literally the only thing that can differentiate the guilded raiders from casual puggers? What the fucking hell are they doing? What will we have left--titles?

The only good news this brings is that my character is gonna make me some spending money on eBay soon.

[Elween]

I wish it worked like that. I pay for the game so they should make it exactly how I want it... right? Especially since there is 10 million people with different opinions on how the game should be. It's your own choice to pay for this service, if you are not happy with it just cancel your account and move on.

Amen

[faisaru]

For all who thinks this is a "good idea" please quit the game your the reason WoW will be dead come Cats release.
We dont need you in the game nor want you

And who said WoW is not planned to die come Cata in purpose!?

I'm neither happy nor sad for this change since I don't raid in the first place :P but in my opinion, Blizzard is preparing for thier next MMO, so with all these so called "casual changes," they're trying to suck the rest of the casuals' money to spend them on their new game. PERIOD. ;D

[DaLeetPawner]

People should think more about the reason they changed it

Guilds and casuals can waltz thru ICC, so they lower the difficulty cap to stop ppl from obliterating bosses in 15 secs.

They now have more time to add MORE RAIDS!!! <-------> Less "months of LK grind"