At wish point do you think icc could be easier than toc

[jayremy]

I wouldn't compare it to ToC as much as I would ToGC.

I think ICC only really is hard on few fights: LK, sindragosa, professor put.

Problem is the learning curve all the stuff in game is easy, some ppl refuse to pay attention and learn thus always failing, but all people need to learn the fight before it becomes routine.

Both are easy fights need to be less about habituating them and more about "in the moment" skill.

[Annoying]

30% more damage/healing won't help people run defile out of the raid. Heroic LK will *always* be harder than Heroic Anub. I forsee many wipes by overconfident puggers come level 85.

[Jon]

Just was thinking if once a certain buff is added will it actually be easier to run icc, than toc.

what are your thoughts

Assuming we're comparing heroic Tocg to Heroic ICC 25man...

If there's any difference, it's very small already. Apart from Heroic LK, we one shot every hc boss every week.

[khalpone]

I'm not sure we'll ever see PUGs clearing LK consistently, like we did in Naxx early in Wrath. There's just too many ways to wipe in ICC. Maybe with 4.0 before the expansion, the talent / stat changes will make it happen, but I do doubt it.

However, I do think non hardcore guilds will get there. Most of the fights just take experience and a slight IQ with raid awareness. The 30% extra health is the biggest factor IMO. People will be able to mess up a little.

For an Alt of mine, that cannot participate in my guild's runs due to RL, I've been walking a small guild through 10m the last few weeks. They've gotten a LOT farther with a little leadership/experience. 7/8 of the players are the same every week, so we only have a little PUG action.

[Maven]

30% doesn't makes Saurfang auto taunts himself to the other tank so never

[Dethh]

its really a nerf but noone likes the word nerf so instead of nerfing bosses like they did in Sunwell they buff the players (sunwell had 30% nerf to everything while ICC you get a 30% buff) Still certain fights require you to respect the mechanics no matter how much you get buffed you can still die. If you iceblock your raid on Sindragosa or stand in defile you will wipe even with 100k hp and 10k SP. l2play and you dont need to wait for buffs to kill bosses.

[blizzardcashshop]

togc 10 kicks the shit out of pugs full of people in icc25 gear

at this point with the 15% buff, togc is harder than all but a couple of ICC bosses, at 30%, toc25 will be harder